Becoming a Better Runner with Matt Silver

Podcast Transcript

Jerred: 

Jerred: [00:00:00] Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Garage Gym Athlete Podcast. It's one of those few and far between interviews. I don't do a lot of these anymore, but when I have someone who I think is awesome, complete badass worth bringing onto the show, uh, we definitely gonna do 'em. And today that is Matt Silver.

Matt, how's it going man?

Matt: I am good. I'm good. How are you, Jerred?

Jerred: I'm good. So, uh, I've been working with Nat for a long time, um, and he wrote the book Built to Run, which I think is a phenomenal book. We're gonna be discussing some of that and, um, a lot, all things running, strength training, um, foot health, everything else. Before we get into any of that, man, how about a quick intro to the listeners who you are, what you do, how do you train all the, all that good stuff.

Catch us up there.

Matt: Yeah. Uh, a, a physical therapist. Uh, I live in, in, in Frederick, Maryland. I have my wife and, and son Luke. Um, you know, kind of, we, we see a lot of, a lot of distance runners, a lot of just active [00:01:00] people, right? A lot of CrossFitters, a lot of people who do, you know, they do F 45, right? Maybe they do their own programming.

They have that, right? They have a home gym, which I have one myself, which. Uh, uh, especially during Covid. I'm really glad I have one. Um, but yeah, kind of became a PT from being just very injured. Uh, kinda motivation for the book too, of why I became a pt. Why I wrote the book was, was very injured as a runner growing up where I really just, all I did was run.

I didn't really do a whole lot of. Uh, like squatting and dead lifting and just, just things to build me up to handle the loads that running places on me, which is, again, it's like running in place, like 200%, 250% of your body weight every step you take. So it's, it's, it's a lot of force in your body, so we have to make sure we're doing the right things.

I just, I wasn't doing that, so I, I kind of crashed and burned and, you know, it doesn't make you, it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. So I kind of rose from the ashes and said, I'm all beat up, but I'm not gonna give up. And kind of made myself. Uh, I'm more of a bulletproof runner and now I, you know, if I wanna go run a half marathon, I have one coming up, uh, the Frederick half in early May that I've been, [00:02:00] uh, training for what got food poisoning recently.

But going back from that, uh, uh, you know, after a week of, of not doing too much and getting back into it, um, but yeah, so I still do a good amount of running. Um, kind of interested in High Rocks now, but it, man, those

Jerred: Yeah.

Matt: It's hard to get into high rocks. Uh, I

Jerred: Yeah, it is.

Matt: that was sold out, so I'd, I'd love to do that.

But really my training now is, it's kind of hybrid, but I, I really, I do enjoy running. Um, you know, but I, I, I, the benefit of, of, hey, we have to be doing other things besides running. And, you know, I, and especially your audience, Jerred, who's listening to this is, you know, maybe they don't do as much running, but they just want to.

Do it and enjoy it, or, or maybe they do really enjoy it. You know, we just know that there's things we have to do to be able to run, whether you're gonna be, Hey, all I wanna do is run. I wanna be great at marathons, or I just wanna be able to run the local half marathon or 10 K, even a local marathon and, and be able to crush that and, and not just crash and burn, you know, trying to do it.

Jerred: Yeah, I think running is just one of those things that is inherently human. Like I really, [00:03:00] um, I wouldn't say I'm in love with running, but I do run quite frequently. Right. It's, uh, I think it's just such a good way to, um, push yourself. I think the, the fitness you can get from it is phenomenal. And we do in our, in our programming, give athletes.

To the option a lot of times for like, Hey, today we're doing zone two conditioning. You can run, you can bike, you can row whatever you want to do. But we do have a lot of runners in the program, a lot of people who select running as their main modality over anything else. Um, and to be honest, it makes a lot more sense than hop on a bike unless you have a machine or something like that.

Um, but one thing that does come up with running, um, in our community and, and anyone I've talked to, it's, it's almost like. Running an injury is, is synonymous. Right? It's like they just go hand in hand with a lot of people, uh, from what I've seen, and I don't know if that has to be the case, right? But like why do you think that injuries pop up so frequently with, um, the recreational runner?

I.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. That's the million dollar [00:04:00] question, right? Is like, I think the, the stat throw it around is, uh, I remember when, when I was in PT school, it was like 30% to like 80% of runners are injured in a given year. Well, okay, I don't know. Wherever those studies are coming from. Let's just cut it in the middle.

Probably 50% of runners. However you define an injury, stops you from running whatever it is, right? Probably half the runners that are running right now might have some injury that stops them from running for a period of time. Like, well, like, okay, it's good to know that, but why is that happening in the first place?

I, I think of running Jerred as like, it's a, it, it, it really, it's a high impact sport. That happens over a very long period of time. So it's, it's a single leg hop, kind of an alternating right. It's left, right, left right. And you, there's some float time in between. So by definition, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're hopping, you're jumping from, from leg to leg. And that happens. if you run a 10 k, that happens around 10,000 times, give or take, you know, maybe a few hundred depending on how long your stride is. Um, but I mean, you run a 10 k, that's 10,000 steps. You run a, um, a half marathon, you know, that's even more steps. I mean, it's, you know, you run an ultra marathon, it's if you run a [00:05:00] 50 k, that's 50,000 steps you're taking during that race and, and it's high impact, right?

It's, it's, I think I said it before, it's around two to two and a half times your body weight. Uh, it's even more, it's, it's, I dunno, I think about it differently when I think it's 200 to 250% times your body weight. Uh, so if I weigh one, I weigh around one 50, easily more than, than 300 pounds of force, uh, equivalent every step I take.

So if we're, if we're, if all we're doing is running, especially if we're like, Hey, I, I'm, I sit at a computer all day, I'm a lawyer. I'm a doctor, I'm just, I'm just not really, uh, uh, uh, crazy active all day. And then I finish my job and I want to go work out and go hard. If all we're doing is I go to work and maybe my hips are tight and I, and I don't have to strength, and then they go run, well, we're not preparing our bodies to handle the loads that running's placing on us, where if we just spend a little bit of time, which, uh, strain training is a big part of it, but mobility's also, Hey, my hips are tight.

It's gonna be really hard to get that leg behind you to find that second gear and third gear, and you might compensate in a certain way. [00:06:00] So. There's multiple things that cause it. Uh, but I mean, the big, the kind of, the big overview is we're just not preparing our bodies to handle that load. But also from a mobility standpoint, we're not preparing our bodies to be put in those positions where if we know we need, I mean, you get like 30, 40 degrees of hip extension when you're running really, really fast.

Well, if you're trying to hit that faster pace and your, your hips can't open up, well, we're gonna compensate somehow. And sometimes that's a lot of runners get back pain and that pelvis can do some really weird rotations if we can't get that leg behind us.

Jerred: Yeah, I remember we had a conversation. Um, I think, yeah, I mean you were still, I don't wanna say early stages of the book, but you were, you were in the middle of writing your book and, and I was going through, um, a back injury at the time and I was also training for that ultra marathon. And it was just so frustrating.

And one of the things that helped me, um, that Yeah. That we discussed, uh, was fixing my, my cadence, um, 'cause I had a run coach and then I was also talking to you and I, I didn't know. How many steps per minute I was supposed to be running, you know, and I, I, I had been [00:07:00] running like forever and, and I mean like actually putting not like 50 miles, a hundred miles a week, like runner, like true runners would, but like running all throughout the military, it's something that's part of every single week of my life, uh, for the most part.

And it's something I literally had never paid attention to in my entire life, was just like. My, my cadence in any capacity. And once you kind of gave me a number to like shoot for, I was like, oh, okay. And then like I started to like, figure out how to do that. To be honest, that was a huge unlock for me in, in the back pain.

'cause my, my back pain was very much muscular. It's just, it was from previous, um, a previous injury and it was just that repetitive motion would basically cause my, like right lat to almost lock up. It wasn't anything like. Horrific. It was just like, oh gosh. And like, it just made it to where I didn't wanna run anymore, and that was a huge unlock.

Um, do you think that, you know, I'm not, I don't wanna say like, oh, that's everybody's problem, but like, why do you think cadence is often not something [00:08:00] that's really like, discussed, you know, that all that much? Um, outside of the people who are like runner runners, you know, like I, I've never, and, and I've been in the fitness industry for a long time.

Still nothing I ever, ever paid attention to until the last couple years.

Matt: Yeah, no, that's, no, that's a good point. I think it's like, yeah. Why is it not talked about as much? I think, um, from the running, I think a lot of people know, at least for like, if they're like a runner, runner, you're like, Hey, I've heard 180. Right? Like that number 180 is thrown around a lot. Which, which that is a great number to shoot for, but. Right. We have different leg lengths and uh, someone who has shorter legs, their cans is probably gonna be faster than, like for me. Uh, like if I sit next to my wife. she's actually taller than me, but when I stand up, I'm like four inches taller than her. 'cause like I have a shorter torso and I have longer legs, which, you know, happens.

I guess that's great for running. Uh, but my cadence is probably gonna be a little bit, uh, uh, uh, uh, you know, not, not as high as high of a cadence as someone who has shorter le or as, yeah, I'm gonna have a smaller ca or, uh, a shorter, uh, what am I trying to say here? I'm not gonna have as fast a cadence as someone who has shorter legs than me. [00:09:00] I think my tongue tied in for a second. uh, but yeah, it is, I think it's probably not talked about as much because, I mean, typically the people that talk about it the most is like, when I say like a high school kid and they're like, Hey, I just joined a track team, and they're super new to it and they're cadence is like, I mean, they're just smacking the foot down.

It's, I mean, it's like one 40. It's super, super slow. That's where man, if we address that, if that issue with that person, uh, that solve tends to solve a lot of their problems. Uh, do you, what was your cadence at Jerred? Do you know what it was

Jerred: Oh, dude, I was just thinking that when you said it, I mean. I feel like I was in like the high one thirties to like one low, one 40. Something like that was like my average cadence when I'd go for a run, something like that.

Matt: Yeah, that, like, if it's that low, if we, if we just make the change of, hey, the minimum we wanna shoot for is like 1 60, 180, you know, if we really wanna get technical, great. But if we're gonna make 80% of the gain with like, uh, 20% of the effort, let's just get you to 1 60. That tends to solve lots of [00:10:00] cadence problems.

So, that's

Jerred: That, and that's where I ended up was like 1 60 to 1 70, 180 was kind of almost unrealistic for me unless I was, unless it was super fast runs. I always, I've talked about that on the podcast before. It's like. Like once I start sprinting, 'cause I was a sprinter in high school, it's just like once I start sprinting everything is good.

It's like I'm hitting the cadence, like everything's great, but, but it's slow runs. I've just, I was horrible at, I just didn't understand how to, how to apply that. And uh, once, you know, once you kind of think through it a little bit, it, it's definitely helps you enjoy running a little bit more. Um, and I think, you know, aside, aside from cadence, it's like I think that's something, a big thing that people don't know.

But another thing that I think is. People are very unaware of me, especially is just foot health in general. Um, you know, the, and, and that, and that's kind of what I'm trying to uncover with you. 'cause I, I, we could go into so many topics of like, going deep with Matt here, and this is just for the listeners.

Like Matt has a book, it's called Built to Run Like I. If you want to go get it, go grab it. Like it, it's [00:11:00] phenomenal if you really want to dive into this stuff. But some of the things I'm gonna be hitting in, hitting on with him is just like the things that people don't know about running a lot of times.

And I think another one is foot health. So what are your thoughts on, on foot health and in general?

Matt: Yeah, that's, that's, uh, it's actually, it's the re it, topic that is just very, it's not talked about nearly as much, just in general, but especially in the, in the running community. 'cause I mean, remember when I was in high school, I had, like, if you look at my toenails are much better now, but if you looked at them in high school, Jerred, I mean, you know, they're just like. Super thick nails, and not to gross anybody out, but it's like, that's just like the, and I see a runner in here. I can just tell, I'm like, there's always like one toe where it's just like, oh yeah, I've lost that nail twice. Or, you know, it always falls off, blah, blah, blah. I'm like, I, I don't think that's really normal.

I mean, sometimes yes, if you run so much. I know, I'm sure if you don't wanna get a shoe that's too big or too wide, but I think a lot of times we're, we're just doing our fee of disservice by placing them in shoes that have, uh, a, a crap ton of, of I crap. Ton of cushion and support. And especially [00:12:00] when they're narrow too. Like our foot is meant to, uh, to spread out in the front. And, uh, uh, a, just a quick little like, um, tidbit of like, how, how our foot just naturally works. Uh, I'm, I'm not anti shoe. I think if there's, if you're running an ulch marathon. It's really hard to run barefoot or in a minimal shoe. That's a lot of stress in your foot. cushion. I'm not saying you're right, I'm not anti cushion. If you love your hocus, go for it. But it's just an example of how man, the shoes that we wear today can really negatively impact our foot is the, the front of the foot, the forefoot kind of where like the ball your feet are, if you look on like the backside of that, um, that wants to spread out.

And if your toes, if our, if our toes are all just scrunch, scrunched together, the muscles get stiff like that. There's muscles in between our. Uh, in, in between the four foot bones that actually when they contract, they help spread the foot out. But if that is all stiff and can't spread out, the toes can't spread, the forefoot can't spread out. Well that's, that's actually, uh, it, it's gonna actually turn our arch off if we can allow our foot to spread. When it hits the ground, we allow it to. It's at four foot to actually assist with pronation. It actually sends a [00:13:00] signal to our brain that says, Hey, turn the midfoot on. Turn the arch on in the middle of the foot so that splaying of the front of the foot sends a signal.

I mean, it happens really quick, but it sends a signal to the brain that sends a signal back to the foot that says, Hey, turn the arch on. So your foot being able to spread out and splay out and your toes can, can press into the ground. That actually tells your foot and your arch to actually, Hey, contract isometrically and create some stability here. Which when we push off, we want to have a foot that sets. Not, not really rigid, but stiff is probably the best word. You wanna have a nice stiff lever to push from, not a floppy foot where you can't get a lot of force and leverage. Um, so that's just one example of, man, if we can start to reverse some of these effects of, Hey, my feet are all clawed up.

It doesn't have to be the 80-year-old who goes to the podiatrist 'cause their feet are, you know, they got the hammer toes. I see patients in here where it's just the beginning of the hammer toe, that we want our toes to be flat. And if we get a little bit of that hammering, uh, that, that, that starts the process.

That's what it looks like when you're 30, 40 years old, 40 years later, you get the really bad hammer toes. But if we can address this now. Get the arch turned on, allow the foot to spread out. Uh, and [00:14:00] again, I'm not anti shoe, I just, I think we need to be putting our feet in, in, in, especially walking in shoes that are much more minimal.

I'm a huge fan of that. 'cause research shows even just walking in minimal style shoes with not a lot of cushion on 'em, uh, that improves the, the, the, the strength and actually the. Like, they call it like the volume, the, the, the surface area of your arch muscle. It turns them on, it gets your foot more active.

So I'm a huge fan. If you wanna run in shoes that have cushion, I'm, I'm not gonna force anyone to change that. But if you can at least walk in shoes that are more minimal, that allow your foot to spread out again, even when you're walking, that same thing happens. You want that four foot to spread huge for foot health.

Very, very, it's, it's, it's amazing for foot health.

Jerred: I think, uh, I've definitely played around a lot with different shoe types. I think I have a wider foot. The brand I landed on specifically for me was, uh, ultra. I, they just had like that, a wide toe box and that's been good for me. Um, lately. I mean, do you have any specific brands like. For running that you'd recommend?

Um, I [00:15:00] know, and, and again, like I'm okay mentioning brands and not mentioning brands because we have no sponsors and I also hate certain brands, but I hate Nike shoes. I just hate 'em. Like I, I, I can't, like they're too narrow. They, they squish my foot, but that's my foot specifically. So I don't know if it's actually a bad shoe, but like, do you have any brands that you, you're a fan of?

Matt: Yeah. Um, uh, I'm also not a big fan of Nike 'cause I mean, yeah, all ffe having a flatter foot or a higher arch foot. Like, it's like eye color. We have different eye colors. We're gonna have normal variation within, uh, within Arch Heights. And, uh, someone might be just a naturally, a little more narrow of a foot. Uh, you want to wear a Nike and it feels great, that's fine. I'm not a big fan of 'em. I, I do like Ultra. Um, I know a lot of the, like the shoe stores in the area here in Maryland and you know, just through the grapevine I've heard things where I think Puma bought them. They're not, I know another, another shoe company owns them.

They've been slightly, they've been getting slightly, uh, they've been getting a little bit more narrow of a toe box. It's still wider, but it's been

Jerred: I've heard the same thing. Like [00:16:00] there was some purchase, I, I think I was reading it in there because I'm due for a new pair and I like saw like some of their reviews and they were like, oh, if shoes suck ever since they got bought out. And I was like, uhoh something to, something to pay attention to. So that's why I gotta find a ne my next brand if Ultra's not gonna cut it.

So what else? What else do you like?

Matt: A big fan, big fan of zero. Uh, I know other people like Vivo. I think they're fine. Um, I dunno, I kind of get this thing. I don't mind spending money on stuff that works Jerred. Like, I'm not cheap. I'll, if something works, I'll spend money on it. Uh, I just, it's hard. I don't know, it's hard for me to wrap my head around how a vivo shoe is more expensive than a shoe that has all this cushion in it.

I don't know. I'm not paying for all the foam, so it's just,

Jerred: Right.

Matt: is a great shoe. It's actually just a little a cool thing. I have mine. I can actually show you guys, I dunno if you have the video on here, Jerry, but

Jerred: Yeah.

Matt: things here, uh, there's a couple of straps. That go around the, the shoe, it's actually been shown in, in the research that, uh, just a little bit of just that, that sensation and kind of, you don't want the foot, it's not like stiff to your foot, but it, it, it's gonna move with your foot. Again, it's not like locking it in, [00:17:00] but having those little straps there, uh, on the, on the zeros, it, it actually has been shown to improve your proprioception. So when your foot hits the

Jerred: Hmm.

Matt: it's like it, your foot's just doing what it's naturally doing, which is, which is exactly what we want. Typically, when you have shoes like a Hoka or you know, Asics, all that, that cushion, that stack height.

Your, it, it kind of forces your foot to move depending on how you hit the ground. Like there's, you know, there's an angle and your foot hits and it has to, it's gonna quickly roll over into pronation where this has been shown to really improve. Uh, like if you have a lot of ankle sprains, this is great because it just, it's gonna, it's, it's gonna morph with your foot and move with your foot and not move your, not the other way around.

You don't want your shoe to move your foot. You want your. Your foot to move the shoe or move with the shoe? So I'm a big, big, big fan of Zero Vivo is great. Um, zero Vivo also used to have like much better coloring and like, I don't know, just, I think they had better marketing. Zero, I think now has much better style shoes.

So, uh, whether you're just gonna walk around, if you're gonna run with them, it's great. But also I think some people are like, well, it's gotta look professional. They make. More professional looking shoes, you know, if, you know, whatever you, you work in an office, they have to [00:18:00] be like a black or a brown color.

They, you know, because like zero tends to have pretty good, uh, uh, pretty good colors. And one more thing to Jerred, I wanna say is I have these, uh, insoles from, I'm surprised this company's not more well known. You can't see the brand on here, 'cause it, it, it faded away. But it's called Barefoot Science. And essentially, it's not an orthotic, it's an insole that the only negative about any shoe that we wear is. Uh, even, even minimal shoes is the, the feedback you're getting is gonna be constant, right? Like you hit the ground. Maybe you could feel as difference if you're on concrete versus grass. You'll probably feel like more bumps and stuff, but Right. It's not like you're actually barefoot. You're not feeling the temperature as much, you're not feeling, I.

The grittiness and the know individual blades, grass and not really able to feel that as much. Uh, and, and the research, right? Our foot just sensing different temperatures, different uh, uh, textures and all that stuff. It gives our brain feedback, it helps turn the foot on. So all this does, it's not forcing your foot in any position. Um. Uh, essentially all this is, is these go inside the bottom of 'em and your, it's [00:19:00] it arch your foot senses that, uh, the feedback and it helps turn your foot on. So it's not, it's not forcing your foot. It's not an orthotic. But a, a lot of the research behind orthotics is your foot senses, the orthotic. It turns the arch on. Well, this is saying let's get rid of all the negative negatives of orthotics and only get the positives. That's what his barefoot science insole. Um, I'm, I'm a huge fan of these. I put 'em in, I wear 'em when I walk and running, whether I'm walking and running in my ultras or in my zeros. and the owner of it, I actually, it's very weird story.

I reached out to him like a month before he passed away. He passed away I think this past December. Um, so he was an older guy, but I mean, great to talk to, uh, really passionate about this, but the research on this is old, but it works. Uh, so huge fan of Barefoot Science insoles as well, to go, I mean, they're like 90 bucks.

Yes, they're expensive, but, uh, uh, there's a shoe store near me that sells these, and they have never had a, like, they've sold like 30,000 of these in the past x amount of years. They have never had one of these returned. Um, he was

Jerred: Wow.

Matt: which is kind of wild. So these, the, there's orthotic out there.

I'm not a big fan of any of them. This [00:20:00] is an, an install that actually works. Uh, it just, it turns your

Jerred: Yeah,

Matt: you don't have to really do anything.

Jerred: and I feel like I know exactly what you're talking about by turning the foot on. 'cause I've done a lot of like minimalist shoes. I've done the. Whatever the finger shoes, like the vibe rums, I've done, um, just some like really minimalist style shoes and even, even ultra compared to like, uh, the ones that I get, the ultras, like Ultra does have some really padded, like thicker ones, but they also have like very minimalist style and that's typically where I go, go towards.

But I fractured my foot several years ago and. I was trying to come back to running through the guidance of no one other than my own. Like, like I think I can go. And so my, my fix was, okay, I'll just get the, the most padded shoe I possibly can. That way I can run with a basically still fractured foot. Um, but I, I thought I'd, it was good enough.

But what I realized in running, in, in those padded shoes was kind of what you're saying. I just felt like my feet. Didn't know what was going [00:21:00] on. I don't know how else to describe it. It was just, it was more like, I was just like pounding pavement with this, like, you know, these super padded shoes on my foot was like unaware of what was going on.

But like, you can feel it, you can feel your foot work more when you're striking appropriately and you have a more minimalist like style shoe. So I think ultimately, I, I just know what you're talking about, but you're saying like that's a huge, like, important factor when. When you're going out there to run and choose selection.

Matt: Yeah. Yeah. No, it's, it's huge. And like when, uh, the, it's funny, the podiatrist who, his name's Mark, Dr. Mark, he, he was working in the va. Um, but he, like the va. I I, I had a clinical there. You don't, I mean, you have some time with patients, but sometimes it's, you get 'em out, you get him in and get 'em out, and he's like, and it's, I'm, I'm sure you know Jerred too, but he, he's just told me stories of like, va, I mean, their feet are all messed up from wearing boots and they're doing all these things.

Like can he do with the 15 minutes, 20 minutes he has with them? Right. If it was a pt, great. He could do stuff, but he, he [00:22:00] just, he just has the VA buy these and just gives 'em to him. And he's like, they work great. Like, what's the minimum, what the easiest thing you can do for your foot health is, is, yes, it's 90 bucks or a hundred bucks, but get these insoles and just put 'em in your shoes and it just, it's going to have, it's your, your foot just gonna feel that and you're gonna naturally want to dome and create that arch in her foot. And that's, it's really what, like, we look at a stability shoe. Like what is the stability shoe trying to do? trying to, like most people have more of the hypermobility foot issue where the foot's no more flatter and it's right. It's what we call over pronating. Well, do we prevent, how do we stop that?

Well, there's, research has shown shoes do not do that at all. Like you're just gonna over pronate and it's just maybe helps a little bit of pain. It actually just changes the way the force vector works. Um, it loads a little bit different part of your knee, like it does something, uh, but it's really not changing over pronation much.

What actually can change that is when you hit the ground, if of course, if you're striking the right way, that. That's half the battle. But if we can get our foot active, press the big toe down, the arch muscles will, uh, essentially create the arch and then go help you [00:23:00] go through a normal amount of pronation and deformation, and then you res stiffen that arch on the, on the back end. Um, but, but also, this is great for someone who has a high arch because on the other side of it, uh, if you have a, you have a flat foot, your foot is, it's, it's a really bad shock absorber. It's just you're just not absorbing any shock versus on the high a foot, you're just. You're so, you're so stiff and rigid.

Your bones and your your ligaments are taking all the shock and your arch isn't doing much. So

Jerred: Mm-hmm.

Matt: have a high arch foot, you wanna get that foot active because you want the muscles to act as a shock. Absorbers, not the, not the bones and not the, uh, not the ligaments and plantar fascia doing all the work.

So that's why a lot of times, Hey, I had plantar fasciitis or plantar fascia issues. Get the arch muscles to work. Allow the natural shock absorbers to be shock absorbers. And your plantar fascist doesn't have to do all that shock absorbing. So whether you have a high arch foot or a low arch foot. Or you got plantar fascia, whatever it is, uh, getting your arch active is going to help.

So I don't want people to think this is just if you have a flat foot, uh, but even if you have a stiff, rigid foot, getting the arch active you want, you want those muscles to [00:24:00] act as shock absorbers.

Jerred: That makes sense, man. All right. So we got cadence, we got foot health and, and kind of shoe selection and kind of the goals there. Uh, but you mentioned it earlier, like mobility and strength training obviously gonna be big, uh, factors here. And I'm sure that we could talk about those two things alone for an hour.

But just briefly on, on the strength training side, um, what are, you know, how should runners be lifting or.

Matt: Yeah.

Jerred: know, what are some of the strength training factors that they should be considering, kind of at a, at a general broad view.

Matt: Yeah, some of the big stuff, um, I think a lot of runners think it's glutes. I gotta do my, you know, I gotta do squats, I gotta do my hip thrust, which is great. Like that stuff is good. But the glutes, unless you're running uphill, they, they do have a braking effect. They are important, but they actually have a more of like a stability effect where they help you control the pelvis.

Uh, like you hit the ground. Is your knee caving in? Does your hip drop excessively? So the hip, the glutes are important and that's part of it, like we wanna work the glutes. But the two most used muscles when running is, it's actually the [00:25:00] hamstrings and, and the calf muscles. Particular the soleus. So making sure we're doing calf raise work, we're doing, you know, hamstring work, uh, like a kickstand deadlift.

Uh, I love like a bent knee calf raise to help get that soleus. 'cause

Jerred: Okay.

Matt: muscle is used a heck of a lot when you walk too. So if you just want to ask, I know everyone's always like, oh, my calves are weak and small. I'm like, well, I can't change your genetics, but. Uh, if you look at runners, like the really good ones, they don't have, they're not like massive calves, but they're like super defined, like muscular calves.

Like that's why that is the powerhouse when running. Um, so I'd say keep doing the glute stuff. That stuff's great. Squats. I love Bulgarian split squats. 'cause it, it just accomplishes running's more of a single leg exercise, which, uh, uh, it just, you know, squatting and deadlifting. I wanna do that, but that's why I like the kickstand deadlift and the bulgar split squat.

'cause we can make it a little bit more single leg. and also on the back it's a little more balanced, too running. We need a lot of balance with it. And uh, also when you do a Bulgarian split squat, you that back leg, you kind of get a mobility stretch of the quads and the hip flexors every time you go down and up.

So, uh, it's just, hey, if we're gonna put our time and energy into [00:26:00] something, we want to get the most bing out of our buck. If we're trying to, you know, like a pushing motion something, you can squat. But if you're like, Hey, I wanna change it up a little bit. Maybe a substitute to squat out and let's get, let's do some heavy Bulgarian split squats for that like six to 10, you know, six to 10 rep range. Um, so big, big fan of those. And then core wise, I think a lot of runners think I'm just gonna do my planks and my side planks, and I isometrically hold them. Well, I. I, when we run, there's a lot of rotation that we go through, so I love doing, you could do side planks, but like move the hip up and down and doing like, we could do a parallel press, but then, you know, rotate out to the side.

So adding on core movements that you could do isometrics, but adding on movement to them, especially through rotation that like we call it the spinal engine when you run forwards. If you can optimize your core, your core is gonna work when you run. It's not just do, it's not bracing like a deadlift. It's, it's, it is braced to an extent, but it's activating and it's rotating, rotating your shoulders and hips and pelvises from side to side or, you know, from clockwise and counterclockwise, um, and opposite directions.

And we get a lot of energy through that, that [00:27:00] spinal engine. So, to train that, it's really, it's important just to do some core exercises where we're, we're getting some rotation through the hip, uh, uh, and also through the core.

Jerred: That's awesome, man. And I think a big thing I'm hearing, I mean, I feel like I've been moving this direction a little bit and I've also just been. I was just hearing it out. In the strength and conditioning community is like a just single leg, like single leg, you know, um, unilateral like stuff. Um, do you think that that is where people should spend most of their time?

If, let's just say they're limited on time for strength training, is that the biggest bang for their buck as opposed to straight bar deadlift or trap bar deadlift or, you know, back squat, you know, should they be focusing more on the single leg stuff?

Matt: You mean for runners or for just everybody?

Jerred: Yeah, I would say for runners,

Matt: Yeah, I, I say for runners, if you're like, I only have like two, three days to work out and, uh, like one day's gonna be an upper day and I have two days for lower. Like, yeah, I, I would, if you're for like, it's all you're gonna do, I would focus on do the Bulgarian split squat.

And I mean, you can get, it does take a lot of weight to get, [00:28:00] to make a bulgar split squat really

Jerred: oh yeah.

Matt: if you've never done it before, hold on to a 30 or a 40. It's. It's, especially if you do it the right way. Like people do Bulgarian split squat and they can push a little bit more on the back leg, like try to silence the back leg and just do the front leg. You, you can make it very much single leg and very challenging with, I mean, you can do fifties and do more weight. Like I, when I do it, I can probably do like, like get challenging, like 50, maybe I could push 55, 60, but like I could do a set of six to eight with a 50, but my back legg's not doing much.

Like that's, that, it's very hard to do it with the back leg of silence. So I'm, I'm a big fan of. Uh, if you're strapped for time, do some single leg. It's almost like, yeah, you're gonna do single leg calf raises versus double leg calf raises. And, uh, big fan of doing single leg work. Uh, yeah, if you're a runner, 'cause you're gonna be, you're gonna be on one leg.

Anyway. Let's, let's get you strong that way.

Jerred: Well, now you have me curious, if you're not a runner, what do you think?

Matt: Uh, I think it needs to be there for sure.

Jerred: Okay.

Matt: But think of it, you know, when we're, uh, I mean, think about, I mean, if you're a CrossFitter, I guess it's, uh, what do they do? Like, yeah, I'm sure they do walking lunges and stuff. Um, [00:29:00] it's not as, it's more for them. It's like you're working out your muscle imbalances, and I'm sure we always have a dominant side.

It's gonna be stronger, but even with, hey, if like all you do is work out and, you know, maybe you play soccer on the weekends or whatever your pickup sport is, but we walk too, like walking is. It's, there is a time where both feet are on the ground, but there's also a time where one foot's on the ground and if you've got one side that's a lot stronger. I mean, like for instance, the other day I had a CrossFitter come in here where, uh, some, a little bit of back issue. On one side we're doing farmer caries and it's like noticeably more like one side, the core kicks in, it's great, and the other side it's like, oh man, my back. Kicks in after like doing the, the single arm pharma area for like 30 seconds.

I'm like, well, that's the weak side, right? Your, that core isn't able to kick in. So the, that's where you feel that little back soreness. Um, so I think a lot of us just have these muscle imbalances where, uh. We, we definitely should be doing, I mean, we definitely doing the double X stuff, but the work on needs to balances.

Yeah. It just takes, instead of doing a double arm farmer carry, do the suitcase carry really focus on that engagement. So just bring in more awareness. I think I, now that I think about it, Jerred, it's [00:30:00] doing more, uh, more kind of unilateral work. Just being aware too, right? Like if you're doing that suitcase, Carrie, how do, how do you feel is one core, like if I hold the weight on my left side, my right oblique, is that really working and you switch sides?

Does it fatigue quicker and, oh man, my back kicks in. Why is it happening? Well, your core's probably weaker on that side. We need to be, you know, we wanna be working on these imbalances. So for, for her, that's what we're doing is loading her up, but also just making sure she's aware of how she's feeling and, uh, spending more time on that side.

That's, you know, that's, that's the problem issue. That's, that's the problem area.

Jerred: Awesome, man. Well, I appreciate it. We've, we've hit a lot of, uh, interesting stuff and like I said, we're really just scratching the surface. So if people wanna learn more about you and your work, where should they go? What should they do?

Matt: Yeah, I would, uh, definitely check me out on Instagram. Uh, it's, it's Matt Silver pt, uh, on Instagram. And then feel free to check us out at, um, alpha project physio.com. That's P-H-Y-Z-I-O. Uh, that's physio.com. Uh, you can just be type in Built to run book. You should pop up as well. Uh, but you could [00:31:00] get it on Amazon, but if you get it from, if you're interested in the book, you can get it from us directly. Like I sign it, I kind of include some things in there, like a sticker and some, some swag items. Uh, so if you wanna get a signed copy, I'd recommend getting it from us, by all means. You can't get it on Amazon. Uh, but most people want the signed copy, so it's, it's, it's cooler if you get it from us, if you want the signed one.

Jerred: That's awesome. Well, I really appreciate it, man. Thank you so much for your time and everyone go check out, check out Matt, all of his, uh, you know, social accounts and also grab the book. All right man. Thanks.

Matt: Yeah. Thanks Jerred. I.