Maybe Fitness Doesn’t Need an HQ

Hey, Athletes! Maybe Fitness Doesn’t Need an HQ? - Episode of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up! 

• Maybe Fitness Doesn’t Need an HQ

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IN THIS 49-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:

• Jerred and Joe discuss Crossfit
• The guys give their thoughts on the fitness style
• They discuss the recent tragic incident at the Crossfit games
• Go over the changes they believe the sport needs to make
• And A LOT MORE!!

Diving Deeper…

If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here is a link to the study for you: 

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Maybe Fitness Doesn’t Need an HQ

Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!

To becoming better!

- Jerred

Podcast Transcript

Jerred: [00:00:00] This is the Garage Gym Athlete Podcast, and we're here to build autonomous athletes and put phenomenal programming into every garage, basement, and spare bedroom out there. I'm Jared Moon, and I'm with Jill Courtney. We are strength and conditioning coaches who have turned over 20, 000 people into garage gym athletes over the last decade.

And we're here to reduce the information overload that exists in the health and fitness industry today. We're going to do that by covering relevant science and give actionable takeaways. Not only from the data, but from our years of experience. So let's dive in.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the garage gym athlete podcast. Jared Moon here with Joe Courtney. How's it going, Joe?

Joe: Pretty good, man. Uh, yeah, pretty solid.

Jerred: Yeah. What's going on on your end. Not a lot. Uh, I'll just let everybody know kind of what we're hitting today. Um, this is not a CrossFit podcast. We don't [00:01:00] do CrossFit.

In all honesty, I talk poorly about CrossFit more than anything. Um, and it has to do with like the programming and some of the, the methodology behind it. And, but a lot of it stems from just the organization itself. Um, so having said that, we're not big into CrossFit. If you haven't seen the CrossFit games, uh, this past weekend, There was a competitor, Lazar Dukic, who Drowned in the crossfit games who passed away And I think I think that we need to talk about it like I think we're gonna talk about it Joe and I after we kind of get through some of the updates and Again, like I said, not a crossfit podcast and you know, but I know some of our listeners Do crossfit they're into crossfit.

Some of them are so part of the community or pay attention to these things But I think as someone who has a platform, I'd like to talk a little bit more about this Event this [00:02:00] issue in a hopes that one maybe you can go support Lazar's family Um, they have a go fund me right now I think if you could you know donate anything to them perhaps, you know, that would be be helpful That's you know, one one reason i'm trying to bring some um, Shine a light on this just in our little corner of the world, but at the same time, uh, you know Just talking about how things could be different and should be different and exposing like a huge weakness You In the fitness community, uh, which is in honestly crossfit hq and how things could be so much better so much different And uh, like I said, this is this is my platform and something I want to talk about if you're not into this Don't want to hear about it cool sign off right now Uh, but we will we will be getting into that today um, but before we do You know, we like to hit on some updates.

Joe, how's your shoulder recovered? Are you good to go? How are you? Uh, how you handling training right now?

Joe: Shoulder shoulder feels a lot [00:03:00] better. I'm probably at 90, 95%. I think, you know, there's certain times where I'll move a certain way elbow out and I'll feel like a baby to little teeny tiny twinge of pain.

I know there's. You know, the anti inflammatories are working or whatever the lidocaine shot did was, uh, it's doing good, but I'm just doing, I'm basically just doing PT stuff for us. I did a bunch of banded stuff earlier this week. I may do empty barbell presses tomorrow. Like I'm really just going slow with it and just going through the range of motions and, um, just doing anything I can to, to use it to get blood flow there.

But I'm not like doing strength building workouts for my shoulder. I'm just. Trying to get the get things moving again is basically it

Jerred: nice man,

Joe: but I do have a heel Do you have any questions on my shoulder? And yes,

Jerred: no, I'm waiting for you. I mean,

Joe: it's good to go and you're perfect And that's what I yeah, that's what I'm waiting

Jerred: Like anything's gonna be perfect It's just like as we get older, it's just like the What are what's hurt this week?

It's like a pinky in the brain. It's like, [00:04:00] yeah, what are we going to do this week, Joe? What what's

Joe: injured this week, Joe? Yeah, exactly. I just, yeah, I just, I need to have like a running sheet or like a tracker, um, body parts that are lighting up red. Uh, so my heel, I finally got the appointment with the ortho here on base.

So they got x rays done a couple of weeks ago and I have a fairly significant size bone spur. That has grown on the back of my heel. So basically when there's enough tension and pulling at the, how it's kind of explained to me on the tendon, um, that you've had for years, like you've always had Achilles stuff, right?

Like, yeah, so I've had tendonitis in my Achilles since I was, since I hit puberty, like, cause I grew too fast. My tendons just didn't keep up, but he, at least a bunch of times. So the, um, with the, with the constant pulling with the tendon, I guess it, It starts to calcify on the bone and creates a spur and then that starts to rub against the tendon.

It starts to, it's, it becomes painful. So I've been dealing with that for about a year, [00:05:00] seeing two different PTs. It's finally started to get better the last couple of months, like to where I don't really have much pain at all, but I still wanted to get a check out. So I have a spur and I met with the ortho and he ran through me the list of options of what to do.

And I thought when I did first, like cursory Google search on spur and like, um, surgery, there's some time that when most of what came up was like, Oh, it's a pretty easy surgery. It just has, you know, a couple of weeks recovery kind of thing. You'll be kind of fine. Um, But it's all about the location of where it's at.

My spur is right where the Achilles attaches to the heel. And the physician was like, because of where mine is at and because of the size of it or whatever, they would have to detach my Achilles to remove the spur and reattach it. And I was like, Nope, that's not happening. And he didn't advise advise us.

He was just like, the most extreme case would be this. But what I am going to do and kind of what he was either The most okay with was, uh, a PRP, so platelet rich plasma injection.

Jerred: Yeah,

Joe: so basically they take a little bit, a couple of vials of [00:06:00] my blood, spin it up, take the plasma out of it and then inject it directly into the site to where, to where it's happening to help speed that recovery and just like a supercharge the recovery there.

So that's like a one to two week recovery thing. Um, The doctor and both, you know, Google just searching around, not sure if I'll be in a boot for like a week just to keep it like as much undisturbed as possible because how I understand it, it creates such an inflammatory response. Like I can't take anti inflammatories for two four and two weeks after because it's the inflammatory response that we want.

So I can't do that, um, for, and which is fine. I don't really take those anyway. And so I just have to, I just have to keep it, uh, take it easy for, you know, two weeks after probably no running, no, nothing crazy. The boot I'm hoping I don't have to wear. I'd rather not wear a boot just cause it's kind of annoying.

I'll, I'll probably just end up going by feel and just not, not pushing it at all. Um, but Hey, if there's anybody who's had one of these or PTs or people out there that have some insight, you know, just can get thrown my way the, [00:07:00] it's not for another two weeks, so I still have time to like, I thought I'll look into it more to see if I still want to do it.

But as of right now, it doesn't seem like a, like low risk kind of thing.

Jerred: No, that's fine, man. I, in all honesty, I'll connect you after the podcast. I know at least maybe half a dozen people who've done PRP injections. So yeah, I think it'd be good. And, but what you're saying, like, that's the big deal is like, some people try to get back at it too fast after PRP injection.

And that kind of screwed things up from my understanding of I'm no expert in this. Um, so it sounds like you're on the right track, but yeah, I can, I can hook you up with some people. Who done it?

Joe: Oh, yeah. Um, I'm in no rush. It's like with my shoulder. Like I'm not planning on doing anything crazy at first anyway.

So if I have to rest from running for a couple of weeks and that's fine, I've got, I've got a bike.

Jerred: Cool. I'm interested to hear more about, uh, PRP and how it works for you. I've, I've, I've kind of, of all the friends I've had, um, kind of mixed results, but sometimes I feel like the people who like say it didn't work are the people who [00:08:00] didn't listen.

You know to like the recovery process and like so I don't know. I don't know if it's which one it is But I know we probably have an army of physical therapists listening to this who are probably gonna Reach out to joe just shoot him an instagram message and be like, hey Here's what you need to know. E even shoot it to our support.

'cause I, I, I monitor that anyway. Yeah. Um, well I don't have a lot update wise training for this High Rocks. Um, just trying to get running in. I kind of talked all, all about all that last week, so I'm not gonna hash all that out. But one thing I did wanna update, my kids are back in school as of today, as that this recording.

Um, so that concluded summer training, but I wanted to talk about some of their results. Um, I'm only gonna talk about my kids' results. No one else's kids that I trained. my friend or my kids friends. Um, but I, I do, I'm just really proud of them and I want to talk about like some of their results, um, across four tests.

We did more than this, but I'm going to talk about these four tests. Um, so I had them do one minute of pushups, one minute of sit ups, one minute of squats, 800 meter run as their baseline test. So, [00:09:00] um, William and Graham in one minute of put, these are hand release pushups by the way. So also, so clarification, hand release pushups on the pushups and ab mat sit ups on the sit ups.

Okay. So just so we're, we're clear on, on the standards that I had for them, squats were squats, but they had to go all the way down every single time. And 800 meter runs, 800 meter run. So anyway, one minute of pushups at the start of summer, William and Graham both did 25 reps of hand release pushups in one minute.

And then one minute of sit ups, um, William did 33 reps and Graham did 31 reps. And then one minute of squats, 47 reps for William, 53 reps for Graham. And William ran a half mile in 510 and Graham ran a half mile in 438, uh, so 800 meters. At the end of summer, uh, one minute of pushups. William went from 25 to 45 reps in a minute.

Hand release pushups. Graham went from 25 [00:10:00] reps to 44 reps in a minute. So William edged him out one rep there. One minute of sit ups. Uh, William did went from 33 reps to 44 reps. Graham went from 31 reps to 41 reps and then squats William went from 47 reps to 62 reps in a minute I mean these are not like it do as many as you can do.

These are time capped at a minute And then Graham went from 53 reps in a minute, which is already a lot to 70 reps in one minute. So more than one squat per second. Um, which is crazy. I was like, dude, I don't know if I could beat you. Um, and then, but no, I totally could, uh, 800 meter, uh, run. William went from 510 to 358 and Graham went from 438 to 340.

In all honesty, when he finished, I was like, yeah. You could have ran faster, but you could have gone faster. Um, so I mean, getting close to like, I know the air force test is a mile and a half run, but like, they're [00:11:00] getting close to passing like, uh, an adult male air force PT test with, with some of these things.

And I only trained them for, what is that? Two and a half months, whatever summer is. So just really crazy, really crazy. I'm super proud of their results, but I wanted to share that because I talked about how I was training them at the beginning, and And then we got to the end and they were super like amped up with their results and uh, super legit And now they're all they're in so many sports I'm not going to be training them as much throughout the year probably just one session a week uh try and maintain some of this uh going forward, but It was pretty awesome.

And then I think i'll just continue to train them during all breaks like christmas break We're not going to sit on our butts and do nothing train two or three days a week So anyway, that's my proud dad moment, but also related to fitness. So They're crushing it, doing awesome stuff.

Joe: The run improvement is craziest to me.

I mean, you kind of expect the push ups and sit ups to get some more out once you're doing some sort of strength. But the run, like that's a huge, that usually takes longer to improve that much.

Jerred: Yeah, and I honestly think Because William, William could not have gone any [00:12:00] faster like that. I, you know, just when you're watching someone cause we're doing on the treadmill.

I'm like, that was it. That's you did it. Like you, you maxed out your run there. Graham finished and was like, I'm okay. But like the, the hardest thing for me to teach them has been pacing. It's so hard to explain, you know? Cause like when you say, Hey, we're doing a max effort test for that. You're 800 meter right now.

They're like fast as I can. Like, well, no, cause if you go a hundred meter fast that you're going to get burned out, then you're not gonna be able to do the rest. And they're like, okay, so pace it. But then they start pace, they over pace. And that's the hardest. They've been the hardest thing for me to teach them is like learning their body and how to pace something like that run, especially if we get further into like a mile or, or above them learning how to pace that has been very challenging for me to teach and coach, but we're getting there.

I mean, they're learning it. Um, but it's hard for anyone. Yeah. It's, it's, it's difficult to like, understand that. That's it's been a lot of fun training them. I mean, I absolutely loved it, enjoyed it, and I look forward to doing it more in the future. Yeah, [00:13:00] that's cool, man. But let's talk about Lazar. Um, again, so sad that an athlete had to pass away in the CrossFit Games.

You know, and so I used to be, both of us, we used to be more in the CrossFit, right? Like,

Joe: it's been a while.

Jerred: Yeah, like we we've been there like and so that's why I think there's some level of like I used to watch the CrossFit games I've done a couple of CrossFit competitions. I've competed in the open and so but then like I stopped it's been a long time since I stopped all that and But when I I saw people start posting on social media that this guy had passed away Lazar I was like, oh my gosh, like what happened?

And then what's even worse is like, they have videos of it online. I don't know if you've seen any of those Joe, but it actually shows him like struggling in the water and like bobbing up and down. And [00:14:00] the person on the paddleboard is supposed to be lifeguard. Is such a fan of CrossFit. They're just trying to see who's winning the race.

Cause Lazar was probably like in fourth or fifth place. And, but they, they want to see who's coming out of the water. So they're, they're being a spectator and not a lifeguard. And they're looking out, they're looking at who's winning and then he just goes under and then it's. Then it's over, right? Um, so a myriad of failures, but we, we could blame that, like the lifeguard, lack of lifeguards, the lifeguard to athlete ratio, all those things.

But I just looked at it from a programming standpoint. And that's what I wanted to bring up first, how ridiculous this was. And people talk about, Hey, there's, there's always a swim at the CrossFit games. He was a water polo athlete, like all this crap. I don't care about any of that. I don't know why anyone is trying to make those kinds of excuses.

Like, You know, social media is a terrible place at times, but none of that is relevant because What the event was, was a [00:15:00] 3. 5 mile run followed by 800 meter swim 3. 5 miles all out. None of them are running like none of them are jogging, right? None of them were like, Oh, let me hit zone two zone three.

They're going as fast as they can and then they're hopping in the water. So I want to go over kind of event history real quick because for those anyone who's like, Hey, if they swim, what happened 2011 they did a swim. Run. So the athletes completed a 200 meter ocean swim followed by a 1, 500 meter, uh, soft sand run.

Then they did some other stuff, but it was swim, run. 2012, I'm not gonna run, I'm not gonna read every single thing they did, but 2012 was they did a swim, then they did a bike, then they did a run. 2013, there was a pool swim. 2014, there was a short swim, followed by some crossfit work, and then a short swim, and when I say short swim, Um, let's see, it was 250 yards swim at the end of doing a little bit of crossfit work, so not an all out 3.

5 mile max aerobic threshold test, just a little bit of crossfit work. And then a short [00:16:00] swim 2015. They did swim work swim again. This time it was, um, a 500 meter swim. Then they did a two mile paddle, like on a paddleboard and then a 500 meter swim. 2016, they just had a straightforward ocean swim of 500 meters.

And then 2017 was the first year they did something similar to they did to this year, 2024, and they did a 1. 5 mile run, a 500 meter lake swim. Followed by 1. 5 mile run. So 1. 5 mile all out run. And then I found this video of Chris Henshaw, who's like the top aerobic coach for CrossFitters. Um, he was on Mark Bell's power project and they talk about how Matt Frazier almost died in 2017 when they did this competition, he was like drowning.

And I think it was Brent Fikowski who saved him, like pulled him up. And like literally saved his life during the swim. So you already see like, Hey, when you, when you've combined this max aerobic threshold, but we both know from running 1. 5 miles in the air force, could [00:17:00] you imagine going as fast as you possibly can and then hopping on the water right after that?

So that was like red alert. Like you guys almost screwed up. Almost screwed up, right? And then Matt Fraser won it, what, three years in a row or something? Yeah. He's the fittest one there, right? Like anyway, 2018, they did a swim run. Um, and then 2019, they did a swim paddle 2020. They did swim CrossFit stuff, 2021.

Same thing. Swim CrossFit stuff. And then 2022, they just did a short swim. 2023, there was no swim. And then 2024, they were like, what the hell? Let's make it the hardest we possibly could. Double the distance and then add some more for the most we've ever done with a run. And let's put it before a swim. So this is the worst programmed event I've ever seen in history.

And people compare it to triathlons. So triathlons, triathletes die every single year in the water. Some of them die of cardiac arrest on the run because it's a very demanding 16, 17, or 14. 17 hour event, whatever it is, you know, for, for [00:18:00] finishers. Um, and people die every single year in triathlons. Well, there's like somewhere between 2 million and 4 million competitors worldwide of it triathletes in just triathlons, right?

That's a lot. And there's about like five people who die per year in triathlons across, let's just call it 2 million, five out of 2 million. And again, I don't think any death is acceptable, but some of these deaths are legitimate, like cardiac arrest at the marathon at the very end, right? Like. Things that can happen to people like that.

You just never knew. Some people do drown. That's very possible as well. There are 79 competitors in this competition and one of them died. Like the, these statistics are nowhere close to the same. So anyone trying to compare that is, is silly. And at the same time, like it's just such, such bad programming.

Um, so now I kind of like, uh, laid the groundwork here for this. There's also another post I want to [00:19:00] read from. Brent Fikowski, uh, that really highlights how stupid CrossFit is. But here's the deal, guys. I talked about this in, in the High Rocks podcast, and I just kind of mentioned my respect for CrossFit Games athletes.

Like, they are legit. Like, I, I might talk poorly about CrossFit sometimes, but I talk poorly about CrossFit for people who are, like, listening to this podcast. Like, somebody who only has an hour a day to train, and all they're doing is hitting a hard Metcon every day. And maybe your gym or your box programs it better or something like that, but that's typically what I don't like.

I don't think the methodology is amazing, but what CrossFit Games athletes do is completely different. They're training all these different modalities. They're, they are dedicating their entire lives to the sport. Cause you have to, to be able to be that fit and compete at this level. They are some of the most legit.

Athletic fit human beings on the face of this earth. And I will not, I will not thwart that. I will not say that that's not true. Okay. So like, I'm not talking trash [00:20:00] about CrossFit games competitors. They are amazing, amazing human beings. My biggest problem has always and forever been the CrossFit games and CrossFit HQ.

They are the worst. Like this is the silliest, dumbest thing on the planet. So Dave Castro, if you don't know, um, he is a former Navy SEAL and he programs all the games workouts. And he thinks it's like funny to see what he can get athletes to do, right? Like he treats it like, but, and I get it. Like if you're training Navy SEALs, granted the average Navy SEAL trainee is probably 19 to 20 years old.

Just so we're all like. They're rubber bands, right? You could do anything to these people and they will be fine. They're not 28 years old, like a Lazar. And I'm not saying he's old by any means, but I'm just saying there's a difference of like training 19 to 22 year olds in buds versus training, [00:21:00] trying to have a legitimate fitness competition for the fittest on earth.

But he's very much in this buds mentality of like, where all those things are fine where it's like, yeah, they just ran 15 miles with a boat on their head. Maybe we should have him do it again. Yeah, cool. For our nation's warriors, F with them, screw with them, make, put them through the hardest test you could ever think of.

I don't care if there's any structure. I don't care about any of that because I get what you're trying to do in buds. You're trying to weed people out, see how fit they are, see what kind of grit they have for some of the toughest missions that they'll, they'll face on the planet. That has no place in the CrossFit games.

And unfortunately they had to learn that through an athlete, um, passing away. But anyway, we can unpack all this a little bit more, but Joe, what are your thoughts, man? And I'm sorry, I've been, I've been just ranting here for like. 10 minutes.

Joe: I mean, it's always been that I, when, when this, when we were, we were talking about the programming and I've always thought it was crazy.

The amount of events that go into the CrossFit games. [00:22:00] And one of my first thoughts was like, why do you need 11 to 13 events across three days to, to figure out who's the fittest? Why couldn't we, like, you couldn't do this across six to eight workouts. And like, If like really in what you're talking about is that you're like with the buds things, it's whoever can do weeding, whoever can make it.

And like the cross, I thought it's supposed to be to find out who is the fittest, but not who's the most resilient or fortitude or just, just surviving. Like, that's not what. I feel like it should be,

Jerred: yeah, I'm surprised they haven't like thrown in like a, like a rifle competition. Like let's shoot a target, like why sleep deprivation?

Yeah, yeah. Like let's yeah, wake him up at 1 a. m. Even though we thought they were going to be competing at 6, like all this stupid stuff. Like Dave would do too. I bet people have stopped him from doing like stuff like that. Yeah.

Joe: And like if they're thinking about because the Olympics are just on, um, like the track athletes and the swimmers, they go and compete in multiple events there to figure out who's the best in the world.

Yeah. But they [00:23:00] have like days in between their events. And it's like, they're one event, they do it, and then they have some rest. Maybe, maybe if they're part of a relay team, they go back to back days, but not like not in the same day because they're, they're there to put, to put out 110 percent and I feel like if you trim this down from 11 You know, plus, you know, one year, I think they have 13 or 14 workouts down to six or eight, each of those workouts, everybody is going to be able to give a higher percentage.

And they're also gonna be able to recover more. And you might act even like have to think about like, okay, we always do is test the right things, you know, get your aerobic ones, get your anaerobic, get this strength, get this endurance, you know, hit, hit the marks. And not just, you know, let's just. Throw some crap at the wall and admit make people do things because we can't.

So like the structure of it, I think is one of the is one of the things that I is kind of crazy to me and should change because you just don't need that much. You're you're he and it will come back today, which I have more to say about him. So, [00:24:00] yeah, I think it needs to, um, just lessen the workouts and makes them actually have more of a purpose and not gimmicky.

Jerred: Yeah, like that's the thing is. So many things bother me about that event because one, it was here. It was in Fort worth. So like, I'm, I'm a short drive away from Fort worth. That was a stupid day. Just so everyone's aware, it was 103 degrees here that day. And I know they did it early in the morning, so it wasn't as hot, but the water was probably warmer than it should have been like Texas lakes, especially like that one, they're not like.

They're not super fun to get into mid August. You know, that's not like a, Ooh, this is chilly. You won't ever say that getting into a Texas, uh, body of water, at least in this, this area. Um, and then at the same time, 3. 5 mile run, 800 meter swim had everything to do with just like what was available. Dave was probably like, Oh, well, this is.

This loop that I picked is [00:25:00] 3. 5 miles. Like, like when we run 1. 5 miles in the air force PT test, there is a reason for it. We do that because there's a lot of science and research that says 1. 5 mile run is indicative of a high VO two max, or very, there's a large correlation between being fast at the 1. 5 mile run and having high levels of VO two max.

That's ultimately what they're trying to test. And you see how, like, there's at least a little bit of thought behind that. The army. Change their fitness test. They still run two miles, but like the army was a combat fitness test or whatever they have now where they have like they do a broad jump and they do a carry and they do all they do a medicine ball throw and they selected all these events based off of it being indicative of the job performance, like how people would perform and what the more recent Uh, combat scene was for, for army, for the army.

And you know, we could get into all the military, the Marines do what the Marines do, cause they're crazy. They run three miles. They just like, Oh, air force runs [00:26:00] one and a half. We'll do double that. Um, or it was the air force. He was like, you guys run three. We'll run half of that. I don't know, but the, the Marines, you know, they have their legitimate test.

Like. But they also serve a purpose is my point. And there's no purpose in, in that there's so much better ways to test aerobic endurance with one, not at people, not even having to hop into a pool. Like if you want to have swimming as part of it, fine, that's fine. But 3. 5 mile run plus the 800 meter swim.

Like they, I just don't think that their programming actually is. It doesn't actually test things, uh, how they, how they want it to. And that's what bothers me about CrossFit HQ in CrossFit games is Dave Castro has been the biggest limiter to their, them being taken seriously. And they don't even realize it because they have this such a, such an F U it's us against them mentality because everyone kind of shit on CrossFit from the get go, because basically because of kipping pull ups, let's be real.

That's [00:27:00] the main thing is like, no one likes kipping pull ups. Everyone made fun of CrossFit. And so that gave this culture of like. Screw all of you. We're CrossFit. We'll do things how we want CrossFit. Like I could see that being like almost an addition to track and field at the Olympics, you know, like, like another event like that.

Like, I feel like that's how capable these athletes are that they could have a place in the Olympics. Now that that's probably 20, 30 years away, but zero, like it'll never happen. 0 percent chance of happening. If CrossFit just continues down this path, which I'm hoping that they're kind of done. In all honesty, because if you think about it, functional fitness doesn't need CrossFit HQ.

We don't need the CrossFit games. We don't need the open. We should take functional fitness away from them, but Hey, thanks for the introduction, but, uh, time for you guys to go like, we just don't really need you as a company anymore. We don't need the company. The fitness methodology is here. [00:28:00] People train how they train.

Let's set up a new body, a new organization for, for these things and make them safer and make them more legitimate tests that have like some scientific research or backing on, on why the events were selected and not just because they're hard. Um, All these kinds of things, like it's, it's just not military training.

There was a part of me who used to kind of agree with Dave Castro of like, yeah, let's just make it hard. But I realized the only part of me that agreed with that was the military side of me, the military side of me, who's trained, who's been the director of training and been a unit fitness program manager and physical training leader to where it's like, sometimes I just need to make things hard to make them hard.

Because I know what you're going to go experience is harder than what we're doing right now. And so that side of me has agreed with him. But the more I look at CrossFit Games competitors as just like legitimate professional athletes who are just kind of getting shit on by Dave Castro. The more I'm like, this is ridiculous.

Like it needs to change because they didn't sign up to defend our country [00:29:00] and truly not know what what they'll face if they were to go to war. Like that's why we train our soldiers how we train them and our airmen and our sailors and everything. But like It doesn't make any sense for CrossFit. It doesn't make any sense to be a CrossFit games competitor and not know anything about what you're about to face.

Joe: Yeah. Um, I remember when I was in the CrossFit and at the gyms, us, even the gym to people, like we were not a fan of Dave Castro. I just feel like he has, I feel like he's made it too much about himself. Like he has too much of a showmanship. Like he, he wants it to be. There's more too much theatrics to it versus the actual fitness.

And that's why I have the issue of like, okay, it's way too many workouts. Cut the workouts in half because you're actually testing, uh, the fitness of the workouts and not just putting on a show. And like his reveals for the open workouts are always super stupid. They don't make any sense, but he just gets a kick out of it.

He always. You know, wants to be center stage. And I think that's that's been definitely a huge issue for me. And just like, I, I'm surprised he didn't go. [00:30:00] Um, when, uh, Greg Glassman was,

Jerred: he did. And I think they brought him back. Like, I think when Greg Glassman kind of got removed. Um, yeah, they brought him back.

I think they just brought him back. And. I was talking to, um, so some other people about this and it's like, why have you ever heard of USA triathlon? They're the, they're like the governing body for triathlons in the USA. You know, anybody there? You ever heard any controversy coming out or like, like, no, right?

And that's how it should be. It's like, what's USA triathlon. It's like, oh, it's the thing I signed up for. But if I need to go run a triathlon, they keep things safe. They keep the events going. Uh, they're kind of the governing body, but shit, I don't know anything about them. I couldn't name one person who works there.

Right. And, and That's how it should be. No one should know Dave Castro. Doesn't that sound like we shouldn't have a personality attached to these things. They should just be a governing body. Keeps things safe, runs legitimate events. But for some reason we know, [00:31:00] and the whole time CrossFit's ever been around, just everything has been controversial.

Everything with them has been controversial and they thought that was cool that that was going to get them there, but they're dying. CrossFit's like literally dying. Like they're, the, the company is slowly going away. They're getting taken over by things like High Rocks and like F45s. And like the, the company and the brand is, is going downhill.

Like that counterculture thing. It's cool for a little while until you become mainstream, which they did for a while. If you become mainstream and you try to keep this asshole counterculture going on, now you just kind of are an asshole. You know, you're not the underdog anymore. You're, you're the big dog.

Just talking shit for no reason. And it's really annoying and like, it doesn't make any sense. So yeah, they've, they've just gone in this really weird, weird direction. I mean, even I got attacked, uh, by two of their employees for writing the article cross that will make you weaker. That was a really popular one.

Like that's why you're here. Right? Like that one, is that the original one that you, you, uh, [00:32:00] you read? And so. I wrote that one and their legitimate, um, there are two of their employees started attacking me like on Twitter via email comments on the blog, just attacking me for having written that. And that was, that was the CrossFit culture.

Some like no name blogger, Jared Moon, who was just getting his start. And they're just like trying to take me apart and take me down just because I wrote. And if you read the article, it's not like really controversial. It's like, Basically, like, hey, here's a, here's a proposed way to train strength if you want to still do CrossFit.

Uh, and it legitimately made me weaker when I only did it. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that, that's all I was trying to say. And anyway, it's just such a, such a weird culture that they've created over there. And I

Joe: think they should be done. I think the only thing keeping it afloat are the pockets of communities that people join.

And they're like religious to their, you know, They're pocket of community, but like you notice when, uh, [00:33:00] uh, Glassman left and so many gyms dropped the CrossFit name. So if they're not paying the royalties anymore, paying the whatever licensing fee to use CrossFit, those communities didn't go anywhere.

You're still working out with the same people. Yeah. It's just. You know, whatever prepared fitness, you know, gym now it's, uh, you know, functional fitness gym versus a CrossFit gym. So, and like their, um, coach certification model, like that was how they, they sort of got their start. But that's kind of terrible now too, like who the heck is going to, like, I'm not going to redo another.

Entire weekend just to take the easiest test that I could take. So they're, they're like, 200 to do the, um, a retest, it's like 1, 500 for the weekend course. I'm like, no, I'm not going to do that. And no, I don't think anybody's going to be doing that because that certification, all that does is allow you to coach across the class.

So there's like no motivation to have that.

Jerred: And I think they've lost, like, I think they're losing that battle too. Cause like, someone tells me they're CrossFit level [00:34:00] two or three. And I'm like, I'm not impressed. You know, I'm like, I'm not like, I'm not trying to offend anybody, but I'm just like, I don't, I don't see a ton of value in that, like CrossFit and that's CrossFit's fault.

I'm not saying the coach is like uneducated or they don't know something. But if you came to me, like, say you wanted to work for me and you're like, Hey, I want to be one of your programmers. I'm CrossFit level three. I'd be like, I don't know. I got it. I don't know anything about what you know, like, because it's inconsistent.

Um, I don't think the verification process is very good. I don't. And they have to do a lot of those things, but I would hire someone with an NSCA, National Strength and Conditioning Association, certification like CSCS or TSACF, something, I'd hire them in a heartbeat over someone with CrossFit Level 3.

And, and that's because there's just more like science and like textbook work behind those kinds of certifications then, um, CrossFit, you know what I'm saying? Like, I just don't, uh, my, my only point is they're not, they're not doing themselves any favor and I feel bad for all the people who've been fully bought into [00:35:00] it.

And like the company's just getting worse and worse. And like, you kind of, you wrap your identity around it. You're right. You can do, go do functional fitness with your friends and it doesn't have to have the CrossFit tag to it. Right. Or you can get certifications in fitness. And strength and conditioning without it having to be through CrossFit.

There are other ways to do that. So I think, I

Joe: think that they're,

Jerred: they're heading in the poor direction.

Joe: Yeah, well, I think they, they could still survive. I think they need to completely change their entire model of things. I don't, you know, the, even when I was, when I was doing it, the, the, there's not a really a, the.

Open workouts are kind of terrible for regionals at games. Like the open workouts are designed so that everybody can participate. Well, they're not indicative of what is going to happen at regionals and the like. So I never, when they were like, there's times where you have those, these small guy, cardio, cardio Kings who can crush the open [00:36:00] workouts and they qualify for regionals and then they make it to regionals.

Yeah, they get super they just get like moderately heavy weights and they can't even complete the workouts. So like there's no correlation that there's there's That, that needs to change as well. Like there are, like you have scaling standards for the open workouts. So, um, don't worry about concluding too many people there, you know, and I don't know what specifically they could do to change that, but I think that needs to, I think one year they even, they changed the timing of the year for it.

I don't, I don't think it lasted very long. They might need to go to like a, a season's sort of, um, model to where maybe competitors like these top competitors compete in a couple of different events across a couple of months. And then that adds up to a point system to like a final showdown. But it's like three or four workouts on a weekend once a month.

And then the final one is also four or five workouts, but not 12 to 13 workouts, uh, like once a year. So I think the whole model could change. It could still salvage it and make it more [00:37:00] open to, um. Yeah, just definitely, uh, had a change in the structure for how they do their, their year out competition and seasons

Jerred: and change in leadership, right?

Like, obviously, Glassman leaving didn't help that much. But what I'm surprised and who know if there's something will change by the time this is published. Um, but someone needs to be fired or resigned. And I'm not, I'm not all about that. Like cancel culture. Like I'm just not, I'm not that guy, but whether it's actually your fault or not, like that's ownership, right?

That's extreme ownership. Like if we hosted a garage gym athlete event at someone died, I would, I feel like I'd have to resign or like close up shop or something like something. Right. Like, I just feel like. Like, even if it wasn't 100 percent my fault, um, and I'm surprised. Oh, I'm not actually surprised it hasn't happened, but I just feel like it should.

And again, I'm not trying to like be the cancel culture guy. Um, but like, just here's an example. When I was [00:38:00] in the military, this was like right after I got in. I don't remember all the details. Um, but, and this is not classified, um, a, a B2 bomber flew with nukes across our country. Live nukes. Why not? Yeah, they they flew across the country with live nukes Most of the u.

s. Did not did not even know that this happened. They took off. I don't remember where but across But I don't know where they they went somewhere. It was like, oh, yeah like landed somewhere else. Um, And they had live nukes on board. Um, they took off uneventful landed safely and then the shit storm that happened after that like the You How many people were fired because of that?

It was like, okay, the base commander fired. [00:39:00] Um, the, the squadron commander fired. Um, the higher up, like the, all the way up to like the three or four star general fired. Like they just fired everybody in succession. I think some of them may have even resigned. And I was like, I was confused back then as like a 22 year old, and I was like, why?

Like, why? That they obviously the three star general had no idea bombs are being loaded onto this airplane and flying across the country. And I remember talking to my dad about it and he, this was before Jocko ever wrote his book, extreme ownership, which by the way, has been a thing in the military before Jocko decided it was a thing.

Like it's, it's always ownership has been a thing. Um, And that's what my dad explained to me. He's like, doesn't matter. Like it happened, happened under his watch. It's his responsibility. There's some sort of lack of discipline, lack of procedure. Something happened in that chain of command to where, you know, he, he F'd up.

And so everyone, my dad just was in complete agreement with every single person getting [00:40:00] fired, that got fired. And, uh, So for me, like, this is the same story. I don't care. Um, it doesn't matter if Lazar, like I I'm sure like maybe an autopsy comes out. Maybe he had a heart attack. Doesn't matter. Doesn't matter.

The event was poorly programmed. Oh, it's the lifeguard's fault. The lifeguard didn't, like, wasn't paying attention. Doesn't matter. You should have had more lifeguards. You should have had lifeguards that paid attention. Fired. Fired. Fired. Dave Castro. Fired. CEO. Resigned. Fired. And again, I'm not trying to cancel these people.

I'm just surprised something like that hasn't happened yet. Like, it should have already happened, uh, in my opinion. Um, or the CEO just stepping down, put someone else in place. And again, I'm not, I'm not the, I'm not the cancel culture type of guy. I'm just surprised there's been no ownership other than like, yeah, he died.

I was really unfortunate. Like I've been like checking every day this week. I'm like, has, is anything coming from this? Like, just think about also that, uh, Lazar's [00:41:00] family, like they traveled from Serbia to be here. Just imagine you going to a different country and like, I mean, you're in a different country right now, but imagine you, your family goes to Spain to compete and Joe dies, you know, your wife would probably be sitting around like, I don't know the rules here, I don't know the laws, like, I'm just going to try and keep my mouth shut until I get back to America and I can start dealing, like, I feel like that's what his family was doing, that's why they're not like outraged yet because they're in a different country, they don't know what to do, they don't know like how to handle the situation.

If an American had died, Is this would already be way bigger and I'm not saying it's not a big deal I'm, just saying like if I wouldn't compete at the crossfit games and I died My family would already be like lawyered up and like suing the hell out of these people and like It'd be a big deal in my opinion.

I think that's what would happen Um, and my family's not even like super Legal action taking people. I just think that's what would happen if it happened in america.

Joe: Uh, yeah, i'm also not [00:42:00] A fan of the cancel culture thing and thinks, thinks that somebody's head should roll. But I do think it's time for Castro to be gone.

And I also say that because he'll still, he'll, he'll, he'll land on his feet with something else, something on the side, because it's not like he did the same thing that like, um, Glassman got torn down for. Castro has enough of a following. He has this podcast now that he's been doing. So like in his, in his ranch, so like, he'll have enough.

Of a following to to land on his feet, but I just don't think he I think you think he needs to separate from CrossFit in order for it to actually, uh, survive and like why and just going back to the game and the logic of it, like that you're the gate that CrossFit is testing fitness. You're testing. Who is the most fit through workouts?

You can do the swims in a pool. You can do all these things in a controlled environment. It's not like a triathlon that, and they're not swimming all that far. I think one of the reasons why the open swim for all of these like iron man's triathlons, because they're swimming a mile. How many [00:43:00] freaking laps are you going to do on, uh, in the pool?

It would just be miserable. So it's just a workout, you know, you know, treat it like a workout and having the controlled environment and just drop the, the drop the gimmickiness of it. And the showmanship and, you know, people will still watch and, you know, people watch the Olympics. It's just doing a quick race.

Jerred: All right. I think we've, we've hammered this home. I will say, um, just as I've done this one time, uh, this was 2016 or 2017. Um, you remember my, the first house I lived in in Texas, I live pretty close to a lake. Um, uh, Ben, my buddy used to come over all the time. We used to do crazy shit. I mean, that's how meet yourself Saturday was started before it was meet yourself Saturday is like, he'd come over on Saturdays.

It wasn't always Murph at the time. We would just come up with some honestly wild crap, like the hardest things that we could think of. In the middle of summer and we would do them and only one time ever did we attempt an all out run into a [00:44:00] swim because I lived at this lake, but I had this idea because, um, there was a small channel in the lake and it's, I don't know how far it was.

If I had to estimate probably 300, 400 meters, something like that. It's also hard to judge water, right? So it could have been further. Um, and it was about just over two miles away from my house. Um, and so Ben and I, Ran, let's say 2. 1 miles all out. And then we got in the water, Ben and I both swam about 20 meters and without even looking at each other, both turned around and came back to shore.

Cause we were like, Holy shit. Like, I think we're going to die. Like we honestly thought that that's the only time I've ever done a max effort run. To. A swim in a Texas lake, very similar to exactly what happened. So I'm surprised more people, and again, they're way better shaped than I ever have been or will be.

But I was just the one time I've ever done almost exactly what they're doing. I quit. [00:45:00] Like I turned around, I was like, I'm not doing this. Like, I don't think I'll make it to the other end. And we had no lifeguards obviously, or anything like that. Um, but it's just, it's just crazy. And again, with the heat in Texas and everything else, it's just.

Insanity. Um, but what I wanted to end with was reading Brent Fikowski. So he's a nine times, nine time CrossFit games athlete. He's finished second. He's finished third. Um, he's pretty, pretty legit competitor. He's also like, they call him the professor because he's very like, you know, smart and like formulaic about how he does things.

I'm going to read his latest Instagram post he posted yesterday. And then we'll, it's going to take me a little bit to read. Um, cause it's long. Um, But I just want to see everyone know like, Hey, this isn't just our opinion. This guy is super bought into CrossFit nine time CrossFit games competitor. And here's what he had to say.

The weekend is over and I missed my friend Lazar. Since 2020, [00:46:00] I've done what I can to professionalize and improve the sport of CrossFit. With the support of others, we have set up the Professional Fitness Athletes Association, PFAA, and petitioned CrossFit on behalf of athletes to create a fairer playing field, standardized movements, and more than anything, promote athlete safety.

When we propose constructive feedback, the sentiment we're left with is, don't worry, we got this, just trust us. We have a better understanding of this than you do. He's talking about when he talks to CrossFit, CrossFit HQ. The problem is no one on their team has competed or coached in this sport at a high level.

Also, they won't let athletes be involved in the process because everything they do has to be shrouded in mystery. Pat, Tia, Cole, Fee, Annie, Lazar, Luca, Chandler, Laverne, Deanna, Victoria, Royce, myself, and many other athletes. and coaches these past four years have been willing to volunteer our time with the PFAA to lend our experience to help the sport improve.

And [00:47:00] one by one, we've all lost interest because there has been no reciprocity. Whilst I know that CrossFit does not aim to hurt anybody, when they say safety is our number one priority, I simply have not believed this to be true for a long time. I believe their top priority has always been their subjective definition of the test.

And the creative freedom they wish to exert when in inventing these workouts, athlete safety comes at best a paltry second. And this past weekend, that strategy went terribly wrong with the most tragic of consequences. I never thought it would be something as bad as one of our friends drowning in a lake.

I'll be honest, I was worried about avoiding many of the same safety issues we've tried to solve in the past. A knee injury caused by doing, he's talking about injuries he's gotten just competing in the games, a knee injury caused by doing a max back squat on a wet wooden platform in the rain. An injury from landing on a coiled climbing rope.

Achilles injuries from rebounding box jumps. 36 out of [00:48:00] 320 men experiencing pectoral tears and three consecutive weeks of regionals with no programming alterations or illness from E. coli bacteria in a lake. All that crap that he's he's gotten as being a competitor at CrossFit Games and and just Like sidestepping here.

Me as a coach, things that I've seen when, when events or even drills are poorly run. My son, William broke his nose and had to get surgically repaired in football, flag football two years ago, because the coaches ran a stupid drill. It was a stupid drill. They ran crossing routes anyway. I won't get all heated and fired up about that, but it had nothing to do with the sport of football.

Had to do with idiot coaches. And then same thing. Um, I, I saw a kid break his ankle in soccer, soccer drills. They were just doing like a wind sprints, but they didn't spread the line out long enough. So like everyone was right next to each other, almost shoulder to shoulder doing these, uh, suicides back [00:49:00] and forth.

And you're too close to somebody. You try to plant your foot, you plant your foot on someone else's ankle broken. So there, it's a big deal. How events are run. Like, and you learn these things, you know, where you learn it. The NSCA like they even tell you how far barbells need to be away from plates and like very little things that you think are Stupid, but like all these little things are very important, but I'll get back to the rest of this post It's a pattern of behavior.

It's their repeated attitude to our concerns. We try to provide feedback. They don't listen to provide clear unambiguous evidence of this Let me set out in detail how we as the PFAA Try to get more clarity on the heat in the Texas for this year's CrossFit Games September, 2023 Fort worth, Texas has announced the location of the 2024 CrossFit games on a non CrossFit incorporated podcast.

Dave Castro Castro states that 95 percent of the events will be indoors. December, 2023 [00:50:00] PFAA emails CrossFit. Emails CrossFit athletes will have to decide whether or not they pay a large amount of money to prepare by training in the heat to create the necessary physiological adaptation for this year's games.

We are unclear if this is necessary given some things we've heard regarding most of the tests being performed in an air conditioned arena. However, the risk of being unprepared for the heat and performing outdoors is frightening. Ideally, we would like a commitment on the number of events to be held outdoors, their duration, and the time of day they are to be performed.

CrossFit's answer. We are not releasing event details at this time, but we assure you that the athlete safety is our number one priority when considering something that got cut off March, April, 2024 PFAA sends CrossFit a two page document that Reiterating December's concern in more detail on providing simple language, they, they could use to give athletes enough detail to know how to acclimatize safe, safely without divulging secrets [00:51:00] of the workouts.

CrossFit's answer, a much smaller percentage of events than Madison will occur outdoors. We, the PFAA, distribute our document and their response via email, website, and Instagram. We then learned that CrossFit didn't like how we communicated their response. Dave Castro almost immediately divulges more valuable information on YouTube about the number of off site events.

We've tried to communicate professionally, and this is what we're met with. To me, this is a typical indication of CrossFit's lack of professionalism and interest in collaborating on safety concerns. I kept thinking, is that the best you can do for the athletes? This is the absolute simplest request.

We're not even asking you to keep us out of the heat. We're just asking, please tell us how often and for how long we will be in the heat. Let the, let the athletes living in cooler climates know how they need to prepare. Is this secrecy of your workouts more important than increasing the ability of an athlete to prepare for the heat safely?

During this time, I saw people online poking fun at athletes concerns about the [00:52:00] heat, like it's a joke. Did people forget about Kara performing Murph in 2014? Which I don't remember, maybe she had like a heat, heat stress event. Um, I remember Murph being hot back in the day, 2014. Uh, people got rab

Joe: rabdo, I think.

I thought, um, one of the Icelandic women got rabdo or something, too, another year. These were like winners, like one of the past.

Jerred: And I remember it was like, uh, it was in California and there was a heat wave and it was like, I think it was like 95 or something, but probably hotter on the stadium floor and anyway, athletes need this information so they can prepare themselves to compete safely.

I plan to play a leadership role via the PFA to keep pushing for change in a sport I know can be so much better in every way, even if my love of competing has dimmed every year, my trust in the CrossFit Games staff's ability to run an effective competition erodes more and more. It's not a secret that by competing, it's not a secret that many competing athletes resent that organization.

Then [00:53:00] every so often when things seem to get too bad, we're asked to bury the hatchet and come back to the table to collaborate. With the death of Lazar, the trust is gone. We need change. And I, with my colleagues at the PFAA, hope to lead the way on behalf of all athletes, past, present, and future to prevent something like this from happening again in a sport we love.

Lazar is dead. Nothing will bring him back. That's it. So you can tell like, we're not, we're not the only ones who are like. This is stupid. You guys need to do something. And I hope again, this is my, my small part of the world and community platform. And if you didn't care about CrossFit at all, I, you know, don't worry.

We won't be talking about it. Uh, you know, pretty much ever again. I don't think I'll. Uh, you know, we have anything to talk about with CrossFit now, like it's just, they, they should be gone and done away with,

Joe: but anyway, him shouldn't be hard to replace, honestly, it's, [00:54:00] you can still take the same fitness, just use a different name, use a different, I mean, the, the grid games, the grid competitions they had for a little while, it was like an arena style, those, I think would be even better nowadays, you have like a team of five, they do a couple of different things and like, that's that.

Jerred: Yeah, I don't I mean, I don't know maybe nothing happens from this like I just don't that's what's been so surprising I know it's only a few days after the weekend But I'm sure that they signed some concrete legal waiver when you've competed across the games that if you die It's like not there's no liability, you know, but I think there's a ton of negligence in that but I just No one's been fired.

No one stepped down. Nothing's come from any investigation or it's just been crazy. I hope something changes by the time this podcast is published, but I don't know if it will be.

Joe: It's going to come down to the retention of the affiliates. How many people retain, retain their membership and that name?

Because a lot of them still. Haven't taken it back up ever since the [00:55:00] Glassman fiasco. So I think they're going to lose a lot more here. And if all it takes is X people that like, where you just read to start up something in the same, a similar space as competitor and boom, people have been trying to do this for a

Jerred: while.

Like, uh, someone I interviewed on the better humanology podcast back in the day who I have a lot of respect for James Fitzgerald, um, from OPEX, he's,

You know, he was one of the first CrossFit Games competitors, maybe the first winner, I think, I think in 2007 or something like that, um, the first ever, and he's super smart, dude, but like, I think he was a part of starting, it's called like the International Fitness Federation or something, and I just don't, none of these other things have like, Gained any traction, but their whole goal, if I understood it correctly, was to get the sport of fitness into the Olympics.

Um, and these are the kinds of things we need. We need professional organizations that you don't [00:56:00] know who who's in the organization, to my point earlier in USA triathlon, we don't need theatrics. We don't need any of that. And I say all this as someone who like, my time is past. I just, I just want to exercise, do some fun things, but maybe my kids want to be part of something like this and I'll steer them away from CrossFit, CrossFit HQ, my whole life.

You guys don't, do not become a part of any of this. Functional fitness, that's fine, but don't associate with this company. Don't compete in their competitions. Just stay away from it. But what if my kids are really fit and they want to do something that's not like a sport? What if they wanted to support a fitness?

I want them to have a place to do that. You know, and, and I, I really hope that something can come from this. Um, so again, all the athletes, thank you so much for, for listening. Um, big takeaways here, other than our opinions of CrossFit is, you know, Lazar did pass away in a very unfortunate event. Um, if, if you, you know, think his family, uh, deserves anything, they do have a go fund me.

Uh, go ruck is also doing some [00:57:00] stuff to where, uh, I think you find on their website. To where they're donating a hundred percent of their proceeds from some, some certain sale to, uh, send it to Lazar's family. So there are a lot of ways that you want to support if you do want to support, um, that, that's a big reason I was doing this podcast in general, but then, you know, secondary, just like, Hey, as a fitness community, we, we deserve better.

Everyone deserves better and we can do better. Um, and this, this is not it. Um, but that's it for, for this one. If anyone wants to be a part of garage gym athlete, uh, we'd love to have you for a free trial and for all of our athletes out there, you know, stay safe. Um, and stay committed, but remember if you don't kill comfort, comfort will kill [00:58:00] you.