Is Backwards Running The Best Way To Improve Running Economy?

Hey, Athletes! Is Backwards Running The Best Way To Improve Running Economy? - Episode of The Garage Gym Athlete Podcast is up! 

• Is Backwards Running The Best Way To Improve Running Economy?

  • Subscribe on any device HERE 

IN THIS 40-MINUTE EPISODE WE DISCUSS:

• Jerred and Joe talk about running backward
• They start the podcast giving their take on the upcoming Fenix 8
• They dive into a study that talks about running backward
• Jerred and Joe give their takeaways on how they would use backward running
• And A LOT MORE!!

Diving Deeper…

If you want to go a little bit deeper on this episode, here is a link to the study for you: 

• The Effects of Backwards Running Training on Forward Running Economy in Trained Males

Garage Gym Athlete Workout of the Week 

Don't forget to watch today's podcast!

Squat Depth vs. Sprint Speed: What Really Makes You Faster?

Thanks for listening to the podcast, and if you have any questions be sure to add it to the comments below!

To becoming better!

- Jerred

Podcast Transcript

Jerred: [00:00:00] This is the Garage Gym Athlete Podcast, and we're here to build autonomous athletes and put phenomenal programming into every garage, basement, and spare bedroom out there. I'm Jared Moon, and I'm with Jill Courtney. We are strength and conditioning coaches who have turned over 20, 000 people into garage gym athletes over the last decade.

And we're here to reduce the information overload that exists in the health and fitness industry today. We're going to do that by covering relevant science and give actionable takeaways. Not only from the data, but from our years of experience. So let's dive in.

Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Garage Gym Athlete podcast. Jared Moon here with Joe Courtney. Today, we're gonna be talking about backwards running. And we're going over a study specifically, it is called The Effects of Backwards Running Training on Forward Running Economy in Trained Males. [00:01:00] So we'll be going over that today.

If you want to know if you should be doing some backwards running, what the hell is backwards running? Is it something that you should even be thinking about? That's what we'll be talking about today. Before we do, Joe, we got to talk about it, man. We ended the last podcast talking about this, and so now we have to open, because it officially came out, the Phoenix 8 just dropped.

And did you, did you watch that video I sent you from DC? I did. Yeah. So what are your thoughts as We, as people who love Garmin, you know, like we, we've thrown a lot of love to Garmin. How do you feel about the Phoenix eight from Garmin?

Not much love. Yeah. Um, does, I mean, everything that they, that they.

Upgraded makes sense, and it's it's good. I see. I see their vision of okay. They combined the epics line and Phoenix line and just made the screen sort of the deciding factor. Kind of like a, um, [00:02:00] kind of like the size of the way they before or solar, you know, which makes total sense. And I always knew that the epics was just the fancier, brighter, uh, Phoenix.

So, um, Just combining those, I guess, from, um, ordering or manufacturing standpoint makes, makes sense. The new features are cool. That makes sense, but not 400 more.

Jerred: Yeah, that, that was my big surprise is like, I get to these watches. If you want a Phoenix now, it's, I mean, it's just going to be a standard.

Thousand bucks, right? Like that's how it's going to be. Um, I do have the epics pro right now and I was right in my assessment before it came out that the Phoenix eight is just the epics pro. Like they are basically the same, especially if the epics pro gets like an update, like a watch, uh, you know, software update or whatever then everything should be basically the same.

Uh, I did watch that video. There's some cool, like some weird new features, I would say like the, uh, They [00:03:00] added like a Siri type thing to the watch. Uh, did you see that? Like where you can, it has like it's AI assistance or whatever. Seems a little weird. So I

think if you already have a Garmin or you have a Garmin user, that's not something that's going to move the needle.

It might be something that's cool, but for people that don't have Garmin's and maybe are looking to switch from Apple or something like that, that might be like a, okay, that's cool. Cause you know, I've had an Apple watch. I wouldn't use the speak function function, especially like to take a call. I'm not going to take a phone call on my watch.

I don't even take phone calls on my phone. Um, so. The only reason why I would use that speak features, because sometimes the menus on these can be cumbersome, like just last, um, just over the weekend, I had to send an alarm for something. I was like, I'm gonna use my watch for the first time, and I had to find where the heck the alarm was.

Well, I could have just spoken into. Hey, can you set an alarm for this time? Hey, cool. Done. So like that, I think. You can skip to, um, sort of the like things you're trying to find to do instead of negative to the menus, because sometimes it can be a bit cumbersome. But other than that, like, so I think if anything, [00:04:00] it's just going to pull in new non garment users and not necessarily move the needle for current government users.

Because if you already have garments mostly for training and not for taking phone calls or serious stuff, because you pretty much already have your phone on you anyway for that stuff.

Jerred: Well, and then that was another thing they added. They added a speaker. And a microphone, um, so it can, it's, it's not, um, it doesn't have cellular data, right?

But it, it can Bluetooth to your phone and you can take a phone call with your watch through your phone, which seems like the less, the least helpful thing on the planet. Like I get if, if you just had cellular and I could take a call out on a run or something, which I wouldn't do, but I'm just saying like, or if I was out in a forest, that's cool.

But it's like, At what point would you want to be close enough to your phone that you're still within Bluetooth range, but you'd rather talk to a person on your watch than through your phone? Swim in the pool. [00:05:00] Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Let's just go through a scenario where that's what you want to do.

I could see maybe like a convenience thing. Yeah, like, okay, swimming or maybe, uh, maybe I'm working on something, you know, like, uh, I'm fixing something. I'm doing something. Someone calls me. I don't want to have to quit my phone. I answer, um, on my watch. I could see that being a feature. I think I would use that, um, the voice command feature.

I was really trying to think through, like, not, not just like negatively, um, Like, what would I use? And I, I came to the same conclusion as you would the, um, the speak to, I think I would use it, but I'd use it for basically two things. One setting an alarm because it is kind of ridiculous to set an alarm with Garmin.

Um, and then the second thing would be, I'd probably use it constantly to start timers because I feel like I'm always starting timers and like. Um, not, not just for workouts. It's like put something in the oven timer for 15 minutes or, [00:06:00] you know, I give the kids a five minute warning, you know, just like all these, like I'm always, I always have timers going on in my life some way, shape or form.

So I think that's. It so that's basically all I would use that for, uh, but other than that, I'm just in the camp of like, Hey, some of these features are cool. Um, I talked about I wanted to downgrade away from the amyloid screen. And like we mentioned before, the podcast is still 1200 bucks to get the worst screen.

Like all are all the price is just the same. Like even if you don't know why.

Yeah, like because I would get the regular the 42 millimeter and it's the same price for the amoled screen versus the non fancy lit up screen. I have no idea why and they even said, like in his review, they even said that they don't do the less bright screen.

Or the S model anymore because it would have been too thick. And I don't know how the less, I don't know how it's taking up more space to have a, the less bright, fancy screen. I don't, I don't just, I don't understand.

Jerred: [00:07:00] No, I mean, it seems like some nineties technology. Granted late 90s that that screen and I like that screen.

I like it better than amyloid for a lot of different reasons, but like it's not a it's not an amazing display.

Yeah, I try to need to be. It does. It does color. It's fine. So I'm pretty happy with early 2000.

Jerred: I'll adjust early 2000.

Yeah, it's got. So I think. Yeah, I think it will bring in new new people that more of the smartwatch thing if you know, and if you're already an Apple Watch user and you're just tired of the battery life and you want, you want something that's better for better functionality for fitness and like GPS and not dealing with all the different apps, that's still the best feature, best thing, reason to have a garment, but you also still like having, you know, the talk to and other smartwatch features, the new eight would probably be a good concession.

But I. Um, if, if I change watches, I've had, I have the seven, I'd want the [00:08:00] seven pro, which is just a one year step difference because it's, it's slightly new, better. And um, it has the, the flashlight at the end, which mine does not.

Jerred: Yeah. And I think, I think with the microphone and speaker addition, well one, you can listen to like Music on your watch.

I'm sure the speaker's amazing for jamming out, but like you don't have to have headphones. Um, but I think that they're taking a step towards this, uh, cellular. Like I think, I don't know if that's going to be Phoenix nine or it's an update Phoenix eight pro. April. Like, I think that's what they're going to do because they already have watches that do that.

Did you know that? Like they already have, uh, like my kid had one, the kid's watch had cellular, like a cellular plan. And then there's one of their running watches. I forgot which one it was. They have one watch. It's a, it's like a legit running watch that has a cellular plan option, Garmin. So they are, they are, they're already like doing these things, but they're, they're not [00:09:00] bringing it to their higher end models.

And I don't know why. Me personally, I don't want it. I'll never want it. I'll never want a watch that I can do phone calls with But a lot of people want that and so I I think the market will demand it me personally I'm only going to start moving backwards in watch technology. I think within the next two years i'll be back to a timex iron man I'm, hoping they just don't go out of business I don't know what it'll get me to

switch my garment.

I really don't

Jerred: Yeah, well, I mean, you know what a Timex Iron Man watch is, right? They don't do anything. It's like lap times and the time. That's all it does. Yeah,

I have a G Shock somewhere.

Jerred: Yeah, I've never liked G Shock because there's, it actually really sucks at laps. Like the, the G Shocks I've always had, like they, they kind of suck at lap times.

But anyway, enough about the watch talk. 8 is out. [00:10:00] We're not impressed. It is pretty cool. That's that. Uh, let's get into the study. So before we do, you're the one who did want to talk about either backwards running, looking into the science or a barefoot running. We're talking more specifically about backwards running today, but why?

Like, what was the big reason behind you wanting to cover this topic or dive into a little bit deeper?

I feel like I'd heard of it being beneficial for one reason or another. I feel like I've seen it pop up and at first you you hear it and you might think it's kind of gimmicky. But then you, if you think about it a little bit more, it makes, it makes some sense.

But then I didn't get too much farther. I was always curious about what would it benefit and, um, how you would even program it or do it because I've only done backwards running like on a field. I'll do like 100 meters. Like, I'll do the length of a field backward because I'm on a field. I'm not going to run into anything and I [00:11:00] don't have to make turns around a track or anything.

So I just go like 100 meters down and okay, I just basically just jogging pace and I do it more for. You know, I've talked about my foot, my health and just moving differently, but not necessarily what these studies aimed to do and did.

Jerred: And I thought, I mean, we briefly mentioned this on the last podcast, how I had experimented with it, with it basically because someone told me to for shin splints.

And so I've, I've done all these things, but I don't always do this. I do it occasionally, but sometimes I think reading the introduction to a study, if it's not overwhelmingly long, can really help everyone better understand like what they're looking to do. So again, the study that we're covering, this is actually an older study, a little bit older.

Um, the effects of backwards running training on forward running economy and trained males is done in 2016, but I'm going to read the intro, uh, real fast and then we'll kind of dive into our thoughts. But the introduction to the study is more like they, they, they [00:12:00] kind of are introducing a broader topic.

And I think with something like backwards running, we need this because we're not talking about. Partial squats or endurance training or energy system training. I mean, we're talking about backwards running. It almost has to really be sold for someone to even be interested in it. So, um, I think their intro intro does a great job.

So here's their intro. Running economy is a critical element of running performance for elite runners. Research has shown that running economy is a better predictor of running performance than maximal oxygen uptake or VO two max, which with as much as a 65. 4 percent of race performance explained by variations of RE.

So I'm going to refer to it as RE that's run economy among elite elites with similar VO two max values. For the purpose of the study, RE will be defined as the energy requirement for a given speed during submaximal running measured by consumption of oxygen, [00:13:00] VO2, while at a steady state. Although it has been surmised that RE is partly inherent, several studies have suggested that RE may be improved by a variety of modalities including strength, biometric, and altitude training without corresponding improvements in VO2max.

Relatively small improvements in RE may result in substantial reduction in finishing time depending on the event, possibly altering the outcome in competition. In the past decade, backwards walking and backwards running have gained popularity primarily in rehabilitation setting as a form of low impact exercise.

Research suggests that backwards walking and backwards running may provide benefit for a variety of conditions including lower back pain, knee osteoarthritis, hamstring inflexibility, and side effects of stroke. The outcomes of these studies have included reduced pain, increased flexibility, walking speed, and walking symmetry.

[00:14:00] indexes. Additionally, studies have been conducted to measure the metabolic cost of backwards locomotion and raise the question of a potential training application in healthy individuals. One such study conducted by Flynn found that backwards running and backwards walking resulted in greater submaximal VO2 response, heart rate, and blood lactate.

then at the same speed in the forward direction. The researchers concluded that an injured athlete may be able to maintain cardiovascular fitness by utilizing backwards walking and backwards running during rehabilitation. The primary purpose of this study was to measure the effects of sustained backwards running training on forward run economy.

It was hypothesized that backwards running training would improve forward running economy in trained male runners. All right, so that was a lot. But the reason I wanted to read that is because we don't hear a lot about backwards running. We don't know that there are all these studies and all these other things.

But I think the main [00:15:00] thing that I wanted to highlight in the study, their focus is on running economy. And a very interesting thing that they opened with is that People can have very similar VO2 maxes, but what might actually predict who's going to win a race is the run economy, not the VO2 max. Because if you think about it, if you go to, uh, like elite marathon runners, I bet they all have very similar VO2 maxes.

And there's a reason that we don't just put people on treadmills with a mask and measure VO2 max to claim who's the fittest runner or the fittest on earth or whatever. It's like, Hey, whoever has the highest VO2 max wins because that's not actually how races work, right? For some reason, someone with a lesser VO2 max can still win a race.

And it has to do more with like running economy, how their training was grit, you know, mental toughness, all those kinds of things. Yeah. And so that's what [00:16:00] I started to find interesting about the study. Was just run economy in general. Um, real quick on the study. It's a 10 week study. Uh, they had, they measured run economy, VO2 max, body composition, heart rate, uh, ratings of perceived exertion and compliance with the training load.

There were eight runners. There were only eight runners and, um, but they were all advanced Uh, runners, which I was telling Joe before the podcast, it is a small story or a small sample size, uh, but as someone who's looked at a lot of studies and we look at more and more, I'm starting to like studies with smaller sample sizes with highly trained people more than giant studies with people who aren't highly trained because I don't, me personally, and I would say probably the majority of the people listening to this podcast, do not, um, align with untrained humans.

Right? Like we just don't. And [00:17:00] so I'm not very interested if you had 10, 000 people who've never exercised in their life, go do backwards running. And you tell me what the results are. I don't really care. Like I just really don't, even though it's a 10, 000 person study. I just don't care because. You can do anything to an untrained human being and they will see results.

They will see phenomenal results. We could have, Hey, let's take 10, 000 people and introduce clapping as their main form of exercising and see what happens. And I bet the results are going to be phenomenal. They're going to lower their cholesterol and blood pressure and all this crap. Anyway, so I don't, I'm not a huge fan of, uh, these studies that don't have trained people.

So when it has trained people, even though it's eight, I still pay attention a little bit more because I'm like, Hey. These are eight humans who've dedicated a life to a sport. They're highly trained. They have some legit, um, performance markers like. What happened to them when you ran them through your protocol?

So anyway, that's what this study is. And there [00:18:00] were, what was it, five week, um, first five week was the familiarization phase. And then they had the main training phase, which was five weeks. And we can get into, I'll get into a lot more details of those things, but I want to just get your initial thoughts, you know, about the study, study design, um, anything like that, or backwards running in general.

Yeah, I, I kind of agree with your take on the. Um, type of study as well, because the less give less people that are trained, they can do much more specific focus on the study and they control for a lot more factors with a smaller, a smaller group and hyper focused on something. Um, I thought a five week familiarization was kind of crazy to see.

We usually only get like a. Hey, come in today and we're going to show you, yeah, it might be a week. It might be, we're going to show you these exercises. You're going to do them once and then you're going to come in later on or a week from now and then you'll be fine. But five weeks, because I guess to get the form down, to get their really coordination now, because they're doing backwards [00:19:00] running for a significant amount of time.

Jerred: That's, that's the, that's the takeaway. Yeah.

And they, I think they supplied each of them with a treadmill and a harness to wear. To run backward, which makes complete sense for, especially for safety wise. I think if I were to do a bunch of backwards running, especially for 20 plus minutes, I'd probably want to be probably one of the few times I'd want to be on a treadmill and to have that harness to make sure that.

I'm doing it right and just to stay there. So yeah, I was very curious on how they were going to program it. And, um, the other crazy part of part of the study was so because these are, um, experienced trained runners, they're doing two sessions per week with the, uh, with the research people, but they're still running on their off days.

So they were told to keep the running one to one ratio of however much running. So however much running they do going forward, normal running, they have to match that going backwards. I don't know if they'd match time or distance, but that was, that was kind of a crazy stipulation, [00:20:00] but also, you know, probably why they supply them with the, um, the treadmill and the harness.

So it wasn't just the two days per week. They were getting a lot more mileage. Outside of it going backwards, which I also thought was really cool. And another reason why this, you know, how they can hyper focus with the limited amount of people.

Jerred: Well, I think the, another point to mention is like, they're not only doing backwards running, like they're doing forward running.

So the way I look at this in general, a few takeaways from. From the study, the study design for people who might want to throw backwards running into their training is 1. The familiarization phase was 5 weeks, to Joe's point. So if you're thinking about doing backwards running, Just know that you need to ease into it.

It said that they, they just, I'm not going to get into the, like the super nitty gritty details of that. They had a warmup, they went a lot slower in no different than anything else you're doing with fitness, like ease into it. So do ease into backwards running. If you are going to think about [00:21:00] doing it at all.

But then, um, the main training, the speed was increased to 161 meters a minute for the, uh, backwards running sessions. And I was like, I had to do some calculations to find out what that is. That's a 10 minute mile. That's a, like, that's, that's insane. Pretty good for backwards, yeah. That's insane. That's, cause like, if you're thinking about, like, backwards running should never be like, Oh, I'm going to do some Zone 4 backwards running.

Ever. Like, that's, that's not what you do. Like, if you're doing intervals, you're running forward. So, best case scenario, backwards running is a Zone 2 activity. Right? Maybe, like it's said in the study, that it's a little bit more metabolically demanding. I think that's because it's not efficient for your body to do, and you're not accustomed to it.

So, I do think that You know, your heart rate's going to shoot up a little bit more. You probably get a little bit more VO2 max benefit. But ultimately, these people were running for 15 to 19 minutes. They added one minute per week in these sessions that [00:22:00] they, they hosted. And they're running at a 10 minute mile pace.

So that is crazy to me, um, that they were going that fast backwards. Uh, cause I don't know, I mean that's probably around, I don't know what my zone 2 pace right now is, cause the, the heat always throws me off with like what's legitimate pace. Uh, yeah, I would say it's, it's probably, yeah, like. 9 to 10 was very comfortable zone to pace for me.

Um, and these guys are doing it backwards. So pretty, pretty crazy that they got to that speed in all honesty.

Yeah, I forward to and if when I do some backwards running, because I do want to try this out some more, I'm either going to do low zone to like, I'll try to do laps around the track, which probably would help because it has the line.

So I'm not going to stray off or anywhere. Or what I said before, I'm just going to do like 100 meters sprints on the, on the field, on a turf field. So it's either going to be slow around the track or Quick 100 meters, [00:23:00] wait till I get to the end line, stop, and then turn around and then rest and go again.

Jerred: I would only do that on a track if no one else was there.

That's kind of my thought too. Like, I'm going to keep going backwards. I'm going to look around and somebody's coming and be like, all right, oh, I'm going to turn around and yeah, you know, start switching.

Jerred: Uh, backwards running. Um, what's funny enough is if you've been listening to podcast, you know, I, uh, I do a little bit of strength and conditioning for my son's soccer team.

And I do make them do a decent amount of backwards running. Um, the main reason has nothing to do with their run economy. Um, it's just the sport of soccer. I, like, when I, when I try and train somebody for strength and conditioning in, in a specific sport, you kind of have to do an analysis of the sport.

And it's like, uh, like my oldest son is really big into football. It's like, okay, let's look at your average bout. Okay, you're like 10 to 12 seconds. max 20 seconds for a play. You need to have really like huge bursts of power [00:24:00] sprint soccer. My youngest or my middle child, like you need to be an amazing aerobic shape, but you also need to be able to basically run.

sideways and diagonally and backwards at times like to keep your eye on the ball and still be moving like how you want, you know. So anyway, that's the only reason I've added any backwards running into that is because it's like, well, you might actually have to run backwards in your sport to some degree.

So I do think what you're saying, uh, Like quick 50 meters down and back, something like that. Me personally, I'd probably only ever do this on a treadmill. Like, I just can't see, like, when I go to track around here, it's crowded. Like, not, like, not massive. But it's typically, there's at least 15 people there.

You know? Huh. And, uh, so it's, it is not like I'm, I'm looking for space. Like there's, there's plenty of space, but if I was the only person running backwards, um, I'm afraid I would run into somebody or eat it. I'd probably fall down at some point if I'm [00:25:00] trying to keep like a good pace. So I'll, if, if I add this in, which I'm still like on the fence about, uh, it would definitely be.

On my treadmill at home.

Well, last week I did my barefoot drills and everything. When they were, people had PT on the field. So, I didn't really, I don't really care that much. Granted, it's not backwards running. Sometimes there's PT going on there for either the Navy or the Marines. I'm not sure what I would do if they showed up.

Make sure you wear your Air

Jerred: Force, your Air Force PT shirt. When you're running backwards around all these Navy, Navy guys and gals.

Hundred percent. A hundred? No, I, I, uh, I, I'd wear Coast Guard or something at least that they'll, they'll like, oh, okay, . Um, but actually there, I might even shoot this study to you, I found about backwards running.

They were specifically done on, um, boys age, 13 to 15. And one of the takeaways I, that I pulled off, it says, progressive high speed backwards running is recommended. As a safe and effective training method for improving athletic performance in adolescent male athletes following sufficient practice and instruction, [00:26:00] uh, they did, they transferred from backwards running to sprint.

So I think they, they ran backwards for like 10, 20, 30 meters and then turned and sprinted, sprinted part of it improved. Yeah, and it improved their, their jump height, their counter, counter, counterbalance, kind of movement, jump, whatever that, yeah, that one. Um, it was an eight week program, had 43 boys do it.

So I like performance because they had them do backwards, backwards runs and then turns and sprints.

Jerred: That's awesome. That's awesome to know. Um, and, and now like I'll kind of get into like, should you consider it? What was the main takeaway? What happened? Well, in this study specifically, there was an improvement in run economy of 2.

54%. And I was like, is that, is that meaningful? Does that matter? And then, um, I had to do a little bit more research and like, Because I honestly, I was like, is, is that significant? But in trained runners, [00:27:00] a two and a half percent improvement in run economy is a big deal. Um, it actually is a big deal because as I opened with in their intro, the running economy is everything.

It could be the predictor of you winning the race, not your VO two max and running economy. And somebody who's already very well trained is very hard to improve. And so I started researching like what other methods. Can improve run economy and strength training can, to some degree, the biggest one I saw with any kind of percentage, uh, around it was plyometric training, plyometric training could increase run economy up to 8 percent in some studies.

So you can see like, we're not, there is no, like, 47 percent increase in run economy. Like that's not something that you develop from supplemental training. So putting that in context, the best possible scenario is maybe 8 percent from plyometric training. And this is at two and a half percent with very, [00:28:00] very well trained runners.

I'm saying that that's pretty impressive because if you think about run economy, uh, you know, run economy has to do with like how much energy. your body is utilizing how efficient your body is. So if you have better run economy, you're burning fewer calories as you run. You know that that's one example you are.

Um, this could be the difference in this could like if you actually just took 2. 5, 2. 54 percent to a three hour marathon runner. That's almost five minutes off of their marathon time. You're taking five minutes off of a marathon time for very advanced Runner is massive, you know, and so these are just things that like, if you're kind of already at that peak, it's something that you consider.

But the reason I'm considering it as someone who's not an elite runner. And we've talked about this on the podcast to some degree when I was doing all my ultra training. I kind of suck at running. Like I, I hired a run coach. One thing we found is like, my [00:29:00] stride is terrible. I don't, I don't stride enough.

Like I, I take, uh, my strides are too, uh, too long and too infrequent. Um, which caused me a lot of back pain until I corrected it. So I'm just not a very good runner, and I don't know why, like, maybe naturally that's not my case. I still have to focus on it quite a bit to hit the right, uh, cadence. Like, I have to pay attention to it quite a bit.

So I'm looking for anything that could help me improve my run economy, because if it's helping 2. 54 percent in highly trained runners, I'm thinking it's going to help me like 10 15 percent as a crappy runner. untrained runner, whatever category you want to put me in on the running side of things. Yeah, moderate runner at best.

Um, so I, I think that it could really help me out. And it's not that crazy. Like if I do their minimal protocol, we're adding like a 15 minute session. Twice a week. You know what I'm saying? Like just for their, their minimum dose there of what they did in the study. Like I can do that [00:30:00] this again, this is supplemental.

I can just add it supplemental. Um, because like the study you just brought up with the adolescents or anything else, there's better run economy. You know, like if I can have more better run economy, I'm going to be more efficient and maybe I just run better. And if it, and all that other stuff they introduced in the, uh, in the main introduction, it can help with low back pain, which I had no idea I would have been doing when I'm, when my back.

I was hurt. If you told me low, like I would've done anything. But when I was like in a lot of pain, you're like, Hey, backwards, running helps. Cool. Let's let's run backwards. Like I'll do anything to like help my back. So anyway, I'm very interested in trying it because to be honest, before you brought it up, I had experimented with it, but I never really looked into the science or like if there was any real benefit to it.

And the fact that I can do it minimal doses, it's not like, it's not like, Oh, what do you do for, for fitness? I run backwards. You know, that's not what I'm going to have to say to people. I'm going to. Maybe throw in two 15 minute sessions to try [00:31:00] it out for a couple weeks and see what happens. See if I feel like, uh, You know, I feel better if my run economy feels better, if my cadence is getting better, if like I'm just becoming a better runner from very minimal, um, you know, addition to training, I'm all about it.

Like, I'm all about trying new things. And I think this is something that I, I definitely do want to try adding in. I'm not necessarily going to program it a garage gym athlete. This will be 100 percent supplemental. But like I said, I kind of, I'm kind of a crappy runner As is like if this will help me, let's, let's give it a shot.

So that that's kind of my thoughts on it. Overall, kind of gave you the results. They're not massive because they were, uh, you know, really seasoned runners, but really cool overall. I think something that everyone could take a look into. You

have a traditional red treadmill, right?

Jerred: Yeah, I got two. I have the true form trainer and then I have like a regular regular one.

I would not want to do this on the true form.

Jerred: No, it's kind of

hard to get your pacing. If you misstep, it's going really fast.

Jerred: Yeah. Like I think. I've been thinking about [00:32:00] that too. Like,

unless you want to try it, walking,

Jerred: walking, for sure. I think I've walked backwards on it before, but I think, dude, I don't know.

Like I've only ever ran backwards. Like you're talking about, like when I have done backwards running like years and years ago, it was, it was like on a field where like, yeah, 50 yard sprints, like sprints, if you will. Um, I can't imagine like, uh, just getting on and going backwards for like 15 minutes straight.

Um, because you know, something that's interesting is like. It's like, it's nuanced. It's, it's throughout the study, but they talk about it for stroke victims and, you know, more brain involvement, uh, but it's like, um, neuroplasticity, you know, I've, I've researched this topic. I've, we've had some guests on previous podcasts about it, but like when you brush your teeth, hand over and over again, your body just gets so used to that that it's like a non issue [00:33:00] like that.

You could finish brushing your teeth and then 15 minutes later, it'd be like, I did I brush my teeth? Like it's such a non factor for your brain because it's so accustomed to it. It doesn't even have to think about it, but you try brushing your teeth with your left hand. And it starts firing the brain up in all these different ways that it's not used to.

Now, you might do a worse job at brushing your teeth with your left hand if you're assuming you're right handed, but it lights up your brain. And this is neuroplasticity. It's very important for your brain to stay engaged. I'm thinking the same effect. Is here I guarantee if I were to like overlay this neuroplasticity of backwards running like I guarantee there's already research on that, but I can kind of see it interlaced in the study when you read more about is like I think running backwards for 15 minutes takes such a level of focus and brain involvement for like guys like you and I who've ran plenty of miles straight forward, but zero miles backwards.

Like that's gonna take a lot of focus, you know, I think that's gonna take a lot of [00:34:00] neuroplasticity. It's gonna grow new brain connections I think it's good for you and a lot of other ways to there aren't as stated or as prominent as something like run economy

Yeah, I think this comes at a perfect time for me because tomorrow I'm getting my PRP shot in my heel And I don't think I'm gonna be able to run for a couple of weeks depending on what protocol they put me on or what?

Sort of, you know pain or swelling or whatever heck the heck it triggers. So this might be a good You know, start with, with walking backwards, then, um, do some little bit of backwards on the track or whatever. And it, yeah, I'm going to be really interested to try it out and see how it is. Um, I did find a, like a Infographic or whatever, somebody that made the listed benefits of it and the claim that it has lower load on the impact and joints, which makes sense.

Um, if you just think about, like, when you're running, if that's right, if you're impacting on your heel or rolling your foot, that's more than if you were to go backwards and first touch your toe, because then your toe and your foot and your [00:35:00] calf and then your quads and everything sort of cushions. As you're going backwards versus, uh, possibly jarring on the heel, depending on how your, how your, uh, step are.

I hear people, some people run and they're just like flip clomping like they're horses, man. Yeah. It's terrible. Uh, so it, it seems like there would be much more eccentric muscle involvement, um, which I'll, I'll be interested to, to try. And another, this also made me think about, uh, last year or something, we went over a study.

About how like there's really high, high, um, intensity sprints were done to active or, um, experienced runners and they help their running economy. So it was more bang for buck because they reduced their mileage. So this makes me think of that like, okay, another more bang for buck thing, which is great for us that only train an hour a day and don't want to go on 23 hour runs to improve our run or something.

So that's sort of a no brainer thing to add. Um, and in the one study I brought up improving sprinting and jumping, I have, I do wonder if it would be a good [00:36:00] protocol for also for, uh, like heavier unfit people to start walking backwards and instead of going on running because the impact and the like their load, even like maybe pregnant, um, females for like walking backwards and then like a very low, um, like power walk, power walk or jog or something.

Uh, if that would be. A better replacement than actual running because pretty soon on for a lot of those people, you just can't get running anymore.

Jerred: And I agree with you like that heel strike is pretty, pretty tough and it's tough to get rid of if you're very accustomed to it. You know, you got those big padded shoes and everything.

So I do think this is a great because there's no walking on your heels backwards. Like, that's not, that's not how a human being is going to walk backwards. And, I mean, the more I think about it, the harder it would be to even, like, achieve that. Probably trip. Yeah, you'd probably fall down. Uh, so this is like, it, it almost teaches, like, a good, uh, four foot strike, you know, that you want when you're running anyway.

Uh, [00:37:00] so I think there are, there are so many benefits to it. And, uh, I definitely want to, want to get more into it, train, train with it a little bit. Uh, because Like you said, like, I want to pull up that study again now that I'm done running. Cause we went over that study that like shorter duration one. I remember, I remember covering it.

It was like it improved. What was it? It was their 10 K times, something like that. I think it was like, it wasn't like marathon times, but it was like still a good distance. Um, yeah, yeah, I think, I think they're over half

marathon at least.

Jerred: Yeah. Something like that. And they were doing much shorter, less volume running.

And like, I, I don't want to say I ignored that study. I did not apply anything from that study. Because I was like, I can't, this isn't like what I need. I, you know, I'm training for an ultra. I can't like do that. But I kind of want to pull that study back up and be like, okay, how can we implement this with like, You know, maybe some backwards running and all that stuff because I do want to, I want to get better at running, but I don't want to have to run a lot.

It's not like I want my cake [00:38:00] and eat it too. I just don't want to, when I run, I don't want to get hurt or do something that, uh, you know, overtaxes the body. But I, at the same time, I want to, I want to be very efficient runner when I do run. So maybe it's not as bad because that, that also is like, it's such a massive factor.

What if I'm in plenty, like I'm in good enough shape to be a great runner, like lungs, heart, all that cardiovascular pulmonary system, everything is like, you know, fine, but I suck so hard at running, it's so metabolically demanding for me, increases my heart rate, makes me so much less efficient. I've had that theory for a while, because I'm like been training like your whole life, like it shouldn't be hard, like running shouldn't be that difficult, but I think a lot of it goes back to my, my form and efficiency.

Always something that you can probably prove on and just one of these things that you never thought about.

Jerred: All right, we'll get out of here. [00:39:00] Um, try out some backwards running, pretty simple stuff. Uh, you don't have to go at 10 minute mile pace, uh, backwards. Uh, as I mentioned, familiarization phase, get used to it, maybe try a couple minutes on here and there.

I'm not jumping into 15 minutes my first week. I'll probably try five minutes in a warmup, five minutes in a cool down and uh, maybe just add a little bit here and there. But that's about it as far as me adding into my training. And then if, uh, I see any benefits or feel like I'm seeing anything from it, I'll definitely update everyone on the podcast.

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